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+--- Thread: GEC's Layout Progress (/showthread.php?tid=108)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-15-2012
jwb Wrote:I believe all TV trains and other priority freights like auto parts went over the freight bypass at Harrisburg station. Diesels were exchanged for electrics and vice versa west of the station itself -- and far enough west that, in my memory, eastbound auto parts trains with E44s were moving pretty fast when they reached the station. This exchange was the reason you saw a lot of light electric power crossing the Susquehanna south of the city over the PRR bridge.
Ah, that makes sense. I just thought that the wires ended within site of the station tracks (seemed that way when I was there a few months ago, but we're talking 33 years ago). I suppose they could just wait there if they needed to.
Quote:Another train from Potomac Yard was the Tropicana train, which was after my time for the NEC, but the Wikipedia entry says it ran twice a week northbound by about 1975. We're starting to get into the reasons the NEC always struck me as a tantalizing prototype, but modeling actual operations is extremely involved.
You know, I totally forgot about that train, yet I don't think I see it in the schedule. I wonder what the train symbol for that one is? I do have a video of that train on the Penn Central behind a pair of E44s. that DEFINITELY would be a train to model, with all its fancy orange reefers.
As far as involved operations go, thats why I actually went through all the effort to map out the schedules. There are so many trains so frequently on the corridor that It becomes practical to model a small chunk of it. I can pick any one or two conrail freights, and there will probably be at least one Amtrak train, and several commuter trains "around" it on the schedule. This means that in one "real life" hour, you can reasonably model operations, and afford the proper models to represent those operations. It beats buying a huge fleets of equipment so that you can run every train for a long period, which is impractical.
The next step will be "graphing" the trains based on time and location, so I can determine which trains will meet at what time in which direction. This could help me determine a specific "place" on the corridor to model, which might mean some generic, "boring" part of the corridor, which is in my mind, perfect, since the less "distinct" details, the easier it is to model.
Quote:Another New Jersey issue is the Amboy Secondary, which certainly in PC days was a route for coal to South Amboy. The trains left and entered the main at Monmouth. How much of that was still active by the late 70s I don't know, but it's a reminder that whatever you do, you would need to be working in a lot of coal extras, going either to South Amboy or Greenville.
The Amboy Secondary was still active, and in fact, it was used as a "bypass" to New York Penn station more than once by Amtrak when there were issues with the Corridor between Monmouth Junction and Union Interlocking. I've got photos of GG1s and I think even a Metroliner MU set picking its way through Jamesburg and Helmetta. They would connect with the NY&LB, then travel north to rejoin the Corridor at Rahway.
There were a few freights that went that way on the schedules I looked at, but nothing to exciting. I didn't notice the coal runs, but I didn't look either.
That said, I don't plan to model that far south. Its probably far more practical to model Princeton Junction, and maybe a piece of Monmouth Junction, but those locations are also in relatively "boring" areas, with just straight track for miles, and trees, and houses. As one approaches New Brunswick, there is a long industrial track running parallel on the left hand side traveling north, but it was never really a heavily used industrial track either.
Areas north of Rahway feature a greater variety of trains, and there are more interesting industrial locations there. True, this also means modeling more trains, but I don't plan to model any large number of trains, just a few specific ones very well.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-16-2012
Well, I'm gonna double check for those coal trains and anything else that might have left at Monmouth Junction, just to be thorough in my schedule, just so I can claim to really have every NEC train down.
Last night I constructed a "Time-Table Line Graph", which pretty much graphs out when and where every train is. I had to "guess" some times for trains the went to South Amboy or other locations not in New Jersey, but the result is scarifying. The graph itself could probably NOT be posted here, it is so huge that it can't be easily read unless it is stretched out. Trains depart New York nearly every minute! It is difficult to read the map, and I'm thinking of trying to make different versions that emphasize different trains.
there are now nearly (but not quite) 250 trains on the schedule, all in 24 hours, at some point during the day. The graph has allowed me to also catch some errors in my schedule (since each train follows a particular "slope", zigzags suggest errors).
You can even watch the trains thin out as they approach Trenton and Philadelphia. The "New York" side of the graph is almost impossible to interpret unless you get close.
All I can say is thank god for Ms Excel!
My plan now will be to make similar, smaller graphs only containing trains during a particular time of day, so I can see where and when the most interesting trains may pass each other. This will make for an Ideal spot to model.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 08-16-2012
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:Trains depart New York nearly every minute! It is difficult to read the map, and I'm thinking of trying to make different versions that emphasize different trains.
NYC ain't a BIG city for nothing! Imagine someone back then taking a long exposure shot there... It would just be a blur line of conitnuous train!
Good luck, now's is the time to reinterpret and synthetize the timetable to be manageable at layout scale.
Matt
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - jwb - 08-17-2012
I think Matt has a major point. I rode the NEC a lot through the 1960s, and as an impressionable teen, I naturally had fantasies of modeling it. (Right.) At the time, I was going to have to find a way to get dozens (even in model-reduced proportions) of P70s, for instance, plus Congressional and Senator consists, plus Patriot and Colonial consists, plus mail trains, plus ACL, SAL, C&O, and Southern run-throughs -- plus MP54s -- and that was just passenger. (Don't neglect the CN cars that ran through on the Washingtonian/Montrealer.) Amtrak makes that easier, but you're gonna have to get a real, real good job pretty soon, Chris, to get those Amfleets and Metroliners in the numbers you'll need! Over the years I began to realize the only practical strategy is to dabble!
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-17-2012
yup!
I actually just completed my internship as part of my bachellors program, and will be moving on to the master program in two weeks. by next spring, I should be able to get a good biotech job!
I have definitely adopted a policy of patience. I've pretty much all but stopped buying anything unless it REALLY fits in to what I want to model, and even then, only if its a "priority" model, which may be rare or difficult to obtain (like the GP40P i mentioned, as well as possible Arrow II kits) . I know collecting all the passenger cars I want will be tricky, and a good chunk i'll have to make myself from brass car sides, such as the Jersey Builder trains.
Though I have no doubt it will be difficult to collect those metroliners, I am not TOO concerned. Even with a nice job, I'm sure I won't be able to justify more than one or two in a sitting anyway. It may take me 4-6 years, but thats just fine. The way I figure it, I won't even have the space for a layout to run these trains for many years anyway.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-22-2012
Well, I missed out on the GP40P, but In will probably land Arrow IIs!!!!!
The company I'm getting them from (IHP) made a "Core" kit that could be made into an Arrow III, Silverliner IV, or Arrow II, depending on the parts provided. Some Arrow II kits were apparently made (minus the trucks), but never offered for sale, and the interest was apparently to low to produce.
Long story Short: I am the only one who owns an Arrow II set anywhere.
IMW has listed an Arrow II, and I saw their preproduction shell, but I doubt they will be produced, given that I haven't heard any news on them in almost a year.
I will be getting 4 Married Pair sets (a total of 8 cars). This is will bring my Arrow MU car fleet to 24 cars (4 Arrow II Married pairs, 7 Arrow III Married pairs, 2 Arrow III single cars). They only require trucks and Pantographs. The trucks I think I can fabricate myself, and the pantographs are easily obtained.
Eventually, I will attempt to clone the Jersey Arrow I kits. Even though the Arrow Is were beginning to be replaced by the arrival of the Arrow IIIs, some Arrow Is were rebuilt to be compatible with the newer Arrows and ran into late 1979.
Prototype Information for the Curious
The prototype was built by GE - AVCO for the Penn Central/NJ DOT in 1974-1975, and was tacked on to the back of SEPTA's Silverliner IV order (Indeed, the Arrow IIs are nearly identical to the Silverliner IV, except that the Arrow II has a smaller roof-top equipment hump, and high-level center doors).
The Arrow IIs were purchased to replace the 60 year old PRR MP54s from New Jersey commuter service. As Arrow IIs arrived, the less than reliable Arrow I displaced the MP54s.
Throughout the late 70s and early 80s, the Arrow IIs were also leased to Amtrak for "Clocker" service (hourly New York-Philadelphia trains), and Harrisburg PA- New York City trains in 1980. Many Arrow IIs were also leased to the Maryland DOT (Later MARC) to replace MP54s on the line between Washington DC and Baltimore.
However, the Arrow IIs had apparently been abused in lease service, and came back to New Jersey worse for wear. In the mean time, NJ DOT had orderd 230 Arrow III cars between 1976 and 1979, which had begun to displace the Arrow IIs. The Arrow IIIs were originally purchased to operate on the former Erie Lackawanna electrified commuter lines to Hoboken, but the Arrow IIs were chose for this service instead they were rehabed, renumbered into the 1200 series, and repainted into the newly formed NJ Transit paint scheme.
When the EL was re-electrified, the old DC system was replaced with a new AC power system that was incompatible with the Northeast Corridor. This stranded the Arrow IIs in Hoboken service, where they ran out the remainder of their service life. Somehow, the Arrow IIs had received far more wear and tear than the only slightly younger Arrow IIIs, and so the Arrow IIs were deemed unfit for rebuild. They were retired in the mid 90s and scrapped in 2001, after only 20 years of service.
A six-car set of Arrow IIs are seen here in 1977. Arrow IIs can be distinguished from the Arrow III by the single arm faively pantograph, single roof hump, and corner air-scoops. All are married pairs that share electrical equipment.
![[Image: 6402.1266465819.jpg]](http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/0/2/6402.1266465819.jpg)
Here, a Jersey Arrow I leads Arrow IIIs in late 1979. This is probably one of the last ones operating at this point. The Arrow Is would be rebuilt into locomotive hauled coaches and cab cars. Arrow Is were built by St. Louis Car company, and though they look similar to other Arrows, they are distinctive. They only came in single unit versions.
![[Image: NJDOT%20510%2011-23-79.jpg]](http://rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/30670/NJDOT%20510%2011-23-79.jpg)
Here, an 8 car set of Arrow IIIs is departing South Amboy in 1980. the front two cars are single units, and the remainder are married pairs. Arrow IIIs have a single large air-scoop, two small roof blisters, and a stemman pantograph.
![[Image: njt1312arc.jpg]](http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt1312arc.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 08-24-2012
There's something really fascinating about your last picture. Those catenaries over a loooong deck bridge are simple, but so effective to carry the sense of a place... and not too hard to do! You've got yourself a great prototype (and I thought 70s were dul in terms of passenger traffic).
I'm just curious, are you planning, after getting ajob, to rework/enlarge the actual layout?
Good luck with your master degree. Anyway, model railroading is a lot about patience. I think most of us have great ideas about the hobby but still take decades to make them come true. It took 15 years between the time I decided to model the QRL&PCo and the first time I modelled a prototypical fregith car from this road. No wonder this hobby is the greatest among modelism!! Even Sumpter and others fellows here can't help themselves and insert their beloved ships into the train realm to bring them to life! ;-)
Matt
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-29-2012
sailormatlac Wrote:There's something really fascinating about your last picture. Those catenaries over a loooong deck bridge are simple, but so effective to carry the sense of a place... and not too hard to do! You've got yourself a great prototype (and I thought 70s were dul in terms of passenger traffic).
Thats the Raritan River bridge on the New York & Long Branch (later the North Jersey Coast Line). That would make an interesting model, and one could probably do it easily with available kits. You could probably kitbash the Walthers Double track Swing bridge to look pretty close to the prototype's center span.
Not only is the location interesting, it was also a good place to get variety for passenger trains. In the past, both the PRR and the CNJ jointly operated the line, and some fairly unique equipment was assigned to the line. Just south of the bridge, the Catenary ended in South amboy, and GG1s would swap with either Steam or in later years, diesels. For a while, the PRR assigned unusual 6 axle Baldwin "sharks" to passenger runs. The CNJ also ran equally unusual Fairbanks-Morse Trainmasters on passenger runs to the beaches on the way to Bay Head, NJ, the southern terminus of the line.
In these photos, you can see the very end of the electrification until 1983, when the wires were extended to Long Branch by NJ transit.
A PRR Shark and CNJ Trainmaster. These were the only 6 axle shark locomotives. The CNJ trains did not change with electric trains, and ran direct across the line.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1533312">http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1533312</a><!-- m -->
A GG1 and a K4 exchange a train at south amboy. The exchange between GG1s and Diesels at South Amboy wouldn't end until NJ transit retired the GG1s in 1983. In fact, the "new" electrification to Long Branch was completed in 1983, in time for the final run of the GG1s. The farewell trip was the only trip of a GG1 on this tackage.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1437246">http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1437246</a><!-- m -->
Quote:I'm just curious, are you planning, after getting ajob, to rework/enlarge the actual layout?
That is the current plan. Right now, I'm just trying to get as much of the unusual rolling stock as possible, since I know that the rather specific prototypes that run on the line are not always the easiest to get a hold of.
In particular, I'm going to still need to find a GP40P, but I'll worry about that later. Hopefully, I will have a functional roster ready for whenever I get the space I need to build a proper model of the Northeast Corridor.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-07-2012
Well, looks like i have some progress to report!
I managed to clear off my cluttered work bench and get things rolling again! I also built a new shelf to store kits and parts on, as well as got big containers to store the boxes to my trains while they aren't in them.
I applied handrails to my new U34CH (though i still need to work on it before I post it, Needs a nose light)
I rebuilt the electrical pickups on my E44A #4457, which had been sitting in its box for a long time. I tried to use methods other than the tomar shoes, but they didn't entirely work out, so I just stuck a new set of tomar shoes on the model. I also lost one of the drop steps years ago at my train club, and nobody ever found it, so I carved a new one out of sheet plastic. It seems to do the job just fine, even if its not 100% perfect. I considered jiggling the other one loose and making a casting (I still have a small puddle of micromark casting rubber), but such a small thin part would be a pain.
I Finally got around to building my Arrow III sets. Its very exciting, and I want to just put it all together, but I know I still have to paint most of them, and I should wait before i assemble anything permanently, since I still need LEDs and such to light the headlights and markers on these models (the cabs are not easily accessible if built as per the instructions). The only annoying part, is that 6 of my married pair kits (12 cars) were missing these small metal vent pieces. All other parts were there, so I'm assuming they were forgotten in the factory (though technically these 6 kits were second hand, they seemed un-opened). It would probably not be wise for me to paint the models without installing these first. I could use the ones I have as a guide in order to drill the mounting holes, but I think I might still wait.
Fortuneately, since i just put in an order of 8 Arrow II cars (4 married pairs) which are made by the same company, he said he'd throw in the extra vents with my order.
The Arrow IIs are supposed to arrive by the end of the month, hopefully with enough time before the Northeast Fallen Flags Rail Prototype Meet, which I plan to attend this year ( Saturday September 29, Bridgewater, NJ <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hansmanns.org/neff_rpm/">http://www.hansmanns.org/neff_rpm/</a><!-- m --> ).
Even if they aren't totally complete, it would be nice to have them on display.
I started planning my catenry again, and i'm trying to see if I can't put up a small section of wire, though its looking like I might still need some of the other wires installed before I attach them.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-09-2012
Pictures to go with the other day's post-
Here is the new U34CH #3371, with 3364. The Atlas U34CH were nothing mor then an U33/36C in NJ DOT colors. Some details (like the dynamic brake vents) don't even belong, but removing them would be difficult without requiring a repaint. The major detail of the U34CH however, was its red nose light, visible on #3364. I have one more casting for this purpose, but I think i'm going to cast the casting, since the company that makes them has not existed for many years.
![[Image: IMG_0115.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0115.jpg)
E44A # 4457 is now back in business. The new dropstep is visible here on the long hood end. Its not an exact match, but the profile is right, so it looks close enough to pass inspection. Besides, the whole unit is black, so that hides most imperfections anyway
. It also required some work on the power pickups, but it runs now, and runs quite smoothly.Right now, i'm debating whether or not to add warning sticker decals to the hood. Prototype photos show the 4457 being covered in grime, so I can't tell if it simply doesn't have stickers, if they wore off, or if they simply can't be seen beneath the dirt. Unfortuneately, the now defunct Champs decals were the only ones making decals that match the rectifier electrics (E44s, E33s, etc.) I have several sets, but I don't want to use them if I don't need to.
![[Image: IMG_0068.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0068.jpg)
Here is a married pair set of Arrow IIIs still under construction. These cars are single ended, but semi-permanently coupled together, both sharing power collected from the pantograph that will be on the "B" car (on the right). At the same time, the both the B car and the A car (on the left) have some equipment divided between the two of them, rather than cluttered under the floor like in the Single units.
Incidentally, all the Arrow II cars are married pairs, and will be its similar to this.
They still need to be painted before the windows can be installed, and the steps have to be installed last, after all the headlights, tail lights, and in this case, power-plugs between the cars are installed. Still working on pantographs, but I wonder if Walthers will sell spares from the metroliners?
What i'd really like are some couplers that actually transmit power between units. I've seen some European couplers like this, but I don't know where I can find them. These MU cars never had knuckle couplers anyway, but it doesn't seem like regular electrical plugs can do the job.
![[Image: IMG_0107cropped.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0107cropped.jpg)
Speaking of the "Single" Arrow IIIs, I just added grab irons to mine. This is the "A" end, which is the blank end on the Married pairs. This is why this car has a ladder on its face. It was a huge pain in the butt, since the end-door grab irons were a pain to install. I knicked the model a little, but it doesn't show up in photos, so i'm not to worried.
Even though this came with silver paint, i'll probably repaint it to match the others, which will have more metallic paint on it.
![[Image: IMG_0081.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0081.jpg)
Once I finish repainting my original single Arrow III (which is also powered), I'll have at least two powered cars, that might be able to haul the married pair cars around until I can power them.
here are some additional Arrow III bodies cleaned up and ready for assembly.
![[Image: IMG_0092.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0092.jpg)
For now a "mock" three car train
![[Image: IMG_0089.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0089.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_0087.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0087.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_0085.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0085.jpg)
Also, as may be visible, I've installed my first lenght of overhead wire, following my PRR diagrams from the compound catenary (which includes the curve Messenger wire, then an auxilliary wire, and finally the contact "trolley" wire. Simple catenary is just the Messenger and trolley wire).
Its been a learning experience. Making the wire was not teribbly difficult or even time consuming. The hardest part was actually attaching the wires to the catenary towers. In the future, I will leave some additional excess on the messenger wires where they connect to the towers, since these might help adjust the tension. I'll cut them flush when the tension is good. another problem, is since the system isn't totally complete (no actual "anchors" for the wire yet), I'm not sure the tension is even going to be that fantastic.
Having the wire there is also good practice for NOT bumping it. So far, i've had several small breaks, but everything was quickly repairable. the system will probably become more stable as more wires and catenary towers are added to maintain tension.
Another problem is that the wire has ALREADY begun to wear the pantograph shoes of the test enginees! brass is already visible on the pantograph of my E44!
![[Image: IMG_0120.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0120.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - MrBill - 09-10-2012
Your catenary building skills are really coming along Cab. Glad you still have some time to work on it. Takes me back to the 70's, riding around Philly, peering through those oval windows. Now I just need to convince you to swap in some #6 turnouts on that main line.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-10-2012
MrBill Wrote:Your catenary building skills are really coming along Cab. Glad you still have some time to work on it. Takes me back to the 70's, riding around Philly, peering through those oval windows. Now I just need to convince you to swap in some #6 turnouts on that main line.
Probably gonna miss the oval windows. Except for the Silverliner IVs, all the other Silverliners are gone now. The Silverliner Vs could hardly be considered a silverliner in my personal opinion. They are so different, they just don't fit in.
I wish i could put larger turnouts in, but there is no viable way to do so. At least there are #4s in right now, as opposed to the old snap switches! Besides, no train that would need #6 turnouts would be using the turnouts on my layout anyway, since inside oval of track is 18"s, with the passing track being 20" between the inner and outer oval. The outside is 22", but that barely handles a GG1.
What would really be nice, is if when I build a new layout sometime in the distant future, is if i could make a nice big interlocking with LONG switches across 4 tracks, with enough space on either end to properly hang the catenary and pull offs. One of the problems with all these tight curves is that i'm going to have to play games to get the wires positioned properly for all these crossovers and turnouts.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - mountaingoatgreg - 09-10-2012
That is realyl looking good, I have enjoyed watching your progression in modeling skills and see that with each post you keep getting better!! I am impressed at your dedication with the soldering as I still have never been any good at it, I can get things to stick, but to be of any visual value I am seriously lacking.
Keep it up!!
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - IndyCity - 09-10-2012
I enjoy your electrics.
Mostly the pair of E44s.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-10-2012
mountaingoatgreg Wrote:That is realyl looking good, I have enjoyed watching your progression in modeling skills and see that with each post you keep getting better!! I am impressed at your dedication with the soldering as I still have never been any good at it, I can get things to stick, but to be of any visual value I am seriously lacking.
Keep it up!!
Its all patience! I use the smallest diameter solder and Tix flux, which seems to work. Besides, I don't think the catenary is as hard as it looks, it just looks scary when its all done. The individual components are relatively easy to build.
IndyCity Wrote:I enjoy your electrics.
Mostly the pair of E44s.
Pair?
I have THREE! In fact, there were only ever a few of these models (I was told 50) ever made by a company called "Alpha".
I'm actually VERY proud of my fleet of electric units. My roster just about covers everything, and there are very few holes in my roster of Commuter and freight equipment. pretty much all I need are more GG1s, just one GP40P, and the passenger cars to go with them.
My roster of 1979 era electrics include-
Conrail-
E44A- 3
E33- 2
GG1- 1
Amtrak
GG1- 2
E60CP - 1
E60CH - 1 (+1?)
Metroliners (Bachmann)- 8
NJ DOT
GG1- 1
Arrow III- 16 (7 Married pairs, 2 single units)
Arrow II- 8 (4 married pairs)
Arrow I- TBD (single units only, Ideally 8 units, but 2 minimum)
SEPTA
Silverliner II- 2
Silverliner III- 3
Silverliner IV- 1 (1 single unit)
The exciting thing about this is that it means I actually have about enough electric units where if I did have an NEC layout, I would have enough units to operate it with relatively prototypical trains with enough traffic density to give it a really busy feel. As I mentioned, my roster has very few holes.
The way I figure it, I only need a few more units. Top on my list are more GG1s (in particular, 1-2 Conrail GG1s and at least 2 NJ DOT GG1s), a single GP40P (they were only run on 5300 series trains, which were relatively infrequent), and if I feel like being fancy, I might replace my Bachmann Metroliners with the new Walthers ones (after waiting for the price to drop, of course).
Finally, I would need some of the locomotive hauled coaches to match.
The only units I wouldn't have that I truly don't expect to see are the G6C and the G10B, which were EMD experimental freight electrics that as far as I know, weren't even made in brass, and would have to be scratchbuilt.
Thought these items can be rare and expensive, they are not entirely out of reach. I've already got a hold of the major signature rare units like the E44s and Arrows, so its pretty much downhill.
As far as my other electrics go, I have several modern Electrics, like AEM7s, ALP44s, ALP46s, HHP8s, Acela Sets, E60MAs, E60CH (NJ Transit), and an E60C-2 shell on an old P2K Sd7 frame that i'm tinkering with.
![[Image: IMG_0076.jpg]](http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg445/CAB_IV/Model%20Trains%202012/IMG_0076.jpg)