Tire Question -- All Seasons Vs. Snow Tires?

[RobertInOntario]

Well, I guess you can ask about anything here, so I have a car tire question!

My wife & I have two cars -- a 1998 Honda Civic and 2003 Subaru Legacy. I think both could do with a set of new tires, especially now that winter is around the corner.

I'll start with the Honda first. In Dec. 2006, we bought a new set of all-season radials for it. At that time, the Honda had about 140,000 km on it (about 87,000 miles). It now has about 186,000 km on it. Just recently, when I start off fast when the pavement is wet, I its front wheels spin easily -- this makes me think that it could do with new tires. Even last winter, it wasn't that great in the snow.

I realize that I bought these tires less than 3 years ago but I'm thinking of getting new all-season radials as an option instead of snow tires.

It's a similar situation with the Subaru. It's about 7 years old & I can't quite remember when we bought new all-season radials for it. But, last winter, we actually got stuck in the snow a couple times with it -- which is really embarrassing with a Subaru! When the car was new (and had new tires) this practically never happened.

So, is this a good/sensible option -- to go for a new set of all-seasons rather than snow tires? Is it also "normal" to replace all-seasons for the Honda in only 3 years (especially if you're using them as an alternate to snow tires)?

Also, FYI, we do a lot of our driving in Toronto but do frequently drive into the country, in the winter, where good tires are crucial.

Thanks,
Rob

[MasonJar]

In my opinion, snow tires are worth every penny. I have had a set for every vehicle I owned since university, and the difference is amazing. I usually get Pirelli for the various Volkswagens I've had (except last year when there was a bit of a shortage in Ottawa), and I have Toyo on my Honda Odyssey.

If you intend to keep the vehicle for a long time there is no additional cost, since you are basically using each set of tires for half the time. There is also a good resale market (at least in Ottawa), so even if you sell the vehicle before you expect to, you can recover some of the investment.

I would also shell out for a set of rims to put them on, otherwise you are paying to bust the tires off and on every spring/fall.

Andrew

[nachoman]

I've spent my life avoiding driving on ice and snow but perhaps I can shed some light here:

first, you current tires may not be worn. Tires have little wear strips between the treads. If the treads wear down to the wear strips, your tire needs to be replaced. Or you could use a tire tread gauge or a penny <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=51">http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=51</a><!-- m -->. If the tires are wearing on one side more than another, they need to be replaced, and there is likely a mechanical problem on your car that needs to be repaired,

Second, if you are driving on ice, the only thing that will help are studded snow tires or tire chains. Normal tires will get zero traction on ice, and even with 4 wheel drive 4x0=0. Snow is okay for good regular tires as long as it is not packed hard, provided you slow down and leave extra time for accelerating and braking. The snow has to be soft enough to compress under the weight of the car and "squish" up between the treads in order to get traction.

People in southern arizona like to drive to the mountains when it snows. These are people who rarely drive in snow, and load up the family SUV for a day of fun. The common mistake they make is assuming a 4-wheel drive high center of gravity SUV is the perfect snow driving vehicle. As a result, they continue to drive 75 miles per hour through the snow, hit an icy patch and lose traction on all wheels, get a little sideways, and then roll when the car reaches dry pavement again.

Since you live in a wintery area, I would suggest buying rims and snow tires for any car that you will regularly drive in the snow. You don't want to drive with the snow tires on when there is no snow on the road - it ruins the pavement and wears out your expensive snow tires. If you have them mounted on separate rims, you can keep them in your garage and put them on only when there is snow.

[RobertInOntario]

Thanks for this feedback, guys. I've found a good tire dealer near my office that has excellent prices -- I'll ask them about snow tires and storage, etc.

Cheers, Rob

[Beamish]

We have always just gone with a good set of all-seasons for all the vehicles in our family. It has been more than sufficient for living in the prairies of Canada. And our trucks always seem to have an excuse to drive off the road and travel through a snow covered field, or across an icy slough or lake.

I have found that the type of tires has much less of an effect than that experience and common sense. I learned at a young age how to start and stop on ice or snow, and I learned that patience and staying calm can get you out of most situations and prevent most others. Along those same lines, growing up I always knew that there was a tow rope, and booster cables in every one of the vehicles we owned. And most importantly I knew how to use them.

One way to learn to drive on ice that I found very informative(and entertaining) was to take the ATV we owned out on a glassy ice covered slough (ice was measured at more than 6 inches and depth in middle was 2 feet). I was able to practice starts, stops, and slides. It was very interesting to experience how the vehicle would respond to my various inputs.

Just a few thoughts of a prairie boy. BTW I heard that our weather forecast for this weekend is snow. And the sad part is I actually believe it.


Mike

[Sumpter250]

Ohhhhh, I just cannot resist a SAR *............

Down here in the "lower 48" All Season tires.
Up there in the "Great White North", I'd recommend a set of..yup....Sled Dogs!

"I have found that the type of tires has much less of an effect than that experience and common sense. I learned at a young age how to start and stop on ice or snow, and I learned that patience and staying calm can get you out of most situations and prevent most others." - Beamish

Sage advice indeed. I would only add, practice. Pick a safe place, and "do stupid". eventually you learn to recognize how the vehicle feels just prior to going out of control, and how to correctly react.

I always "test the road conditions".....jump on the gas, lock up the binders, see just how much traction I have on the road or driving surface.
I do remember once on the Taconic State Parkway,N.Y. The rain was falling, the road was wet, and suddenly I couldn't hear the "hiss" of the tires on wet pavement. Put the auto trans in neutral, turned on the right turn flasher, and coasted to a stop on the shoulder, where I watched all those vehicles I had been moving with, slide on the glare ice, into each other............my Dad had never stopped reminding me that I had to be aware of everything, when driving. I thanked him when I got safely home.

How does your vehicle feel at the moment it begins to hydroplane??

* Smart A.. Reply

[RobertInOntario]

We have always just gone with a good set of all-seasons for all the vehicles in our family. It has been more than sufficient for living in the prairies of Canada. And our trucks always seem to have an excuse to drive off the road and travel through a snow covered field, or across an icy slough or lake.
I have found that the type of tires has much less of an effect than that experience and common sense. I learned at a young age how to start and stop on ice or snow, and I learned that patience and staying calm can get you out of most situations and prevent most others. Along those same lines, growing up I always knew that there was a tow rope, and booster cables in every one of the vehicles we owned. And most importantly I knew how to use them.
One way to learn to drive on ice that I found very informative(and entertaining) was to take the ATV we owned out on a glassy ice covered slough (ice was measured at more than 6 inches and depth in middle was 2 feet). I was able to practice starts, stops, and slides. It was very interesting to experience how the vehicle would respond to my various inputs.
Just a few thoughts of a prairie boy. BTW I heard that our weather forecast for this weekend is snow. And the sad part is I actually believe it.
Mike

Thanks, Mike! Yes, common sense and calm, sensible driving are key. I just find it interesting, when we first owned the Subaru (with its new tires) that I don't think we ever got stuck in it but -- last winter -- we got stuck a couple times. One time, I was actually trying to park at our LHS and as soon as I drove into their driveway, I got stuck -- very embarrassing! I just gave up and, fortunately, two guys pushed me out and I immediately drove home!

Still weighing my options here ... In Toronto, you only REALLY need snow tires on 1-2 days in the whole winter. But, as mentioned, we like to drive into the country a lot.

I guess if it snows really bad, our mayor might call out the army again! :mrgreen: [In-joke for Canadians :-) ] I'm not originally from Toronto so you can make fun of it all you like!

Thanks, Rob

[MasonJar]

Thanks, Mike! Yes, common sense and calm, sensible driving are key. I just find it interesting, when we first owned the Subaru (with its new tires) that I don't think we ever got stuck in it but -- last winter -- we got stuck a couple times. One time, I was actually trying to park at our LHS and as soon as I drove into their driveway, I got stuck -- very embarrassing! I just gave up and, fortunately, two guys pushed me out and I immediately drove home!

Still weighing my options here ... In Toronto, you only REALLY need snow tires on 1-2 days in the whole winter. But, as mentioned, we like to drive into the country a lot.

I guess if it snows really bad, our mayor might call out the army again! :mrgreen: [In-joke for Canadians :-) ] I'm not originally from Toronto so you can make fun of it all you like!

Thanks, Rob

I was going to make that joke about To and no real winter...

But even if there is no snow on the ground, the winter tires are still more effective. They generally have a chunkier tread, moving snow, slush and water, and are more flexible at low temperatures since they are softer - therefore giving better grip. That's why I never left my Pirellis on during the summer. On dry hot pavement, they wear away too quick!

Andrew

[tomustang]

Well, I guess you can ask about anything here, so I have a car tire question!

My wife & I have two cars -- a 1998 Honda Civic and 2003 Subaru Legacy. I think both could do with a set of new tires, especially now that winter is around the corner.

I'll start with the Honda first. In Dec. 2006, we bought a new set of all-season radials for it. At that time, the Honda had about 140,000 km on it (about 87,000 miles). It now has about 186,000 km on it. Just recently, when I start off fast when the pavement is wet, I its front wheels spin easily -- this makes me think that it could do with new tires. Even last winter, it wasn't that great in the snow.

I realize that I bought these tires less than 3 years ago but I'm thinking of getting new all-season radials as an option instead of snow tires.

It's a similar situation with the Subaru. It's about 7 years old & I can't quite remember when we bought new all-season radials for it. But, last winter, we actually got stuck in the snow a couple times with it -- which is really embarrassing with a Subaru! When the car was new (and had new tires) this practically never happened.

So, is this a good/sensible option -- to go for a new set of all-seasons rather than snow tires? Is it also "normal" to replace all-seasons for the Honda in only 3 years (especially if you're using them as an alternate to snow tires)?

Also, FYI, we do a lot of our driving in Toronto but do frequently drive into the country, in the winter, where good tires are crucial.

Thanks,
Rob

I wouldn't buy snows tires unless they were on a dedicated rim, they won't hold up well driving around the rest of the year. Since you own 2 very popular cars associated with import tuners you can find stock rims cheap (look on some local car forums), then buy some Blizzacks for them which are great snow tires and cheap.

If your stock tires are going shallow, replace them now. The penny 'check' always works

[Selector]

I agree with having separate rims and actual snow tires. Most of us do enough driving that we require two oil changes a year on modern engines: spring and fall are good times to do tire and rim swap-outs. Even though I live right on the salt chuck on Vancouver Island, and can golf year-round at sea level, the fact is that the missus and I love to snow shoe on Mt. Washington, and she goes into the central interior to visit her mom three times a year or more, always once during the winter....that means the Fraser Canyon. it seemed a cheap bit of insurance to average the wear over two sets of tires and have the real McCoys at your service. The experts all insist that good quality snow tires do make a substantial difference in stopping distance, and not just on snowy roads...they're great in the rain, too....as in late fall rains.

If you have good new summer tires, or all seaons, and a good set of snow tires, you should be good for at least seven years before you have to purchase either ones again.

-Crandell

[Squidbait]

OK, for anyone north of the 49'th and doesn't live in Vancouver, and says "I've gotten by just fine on all seasons" has never tried snow tires in snow and slush.

On the Prairies it's a little different story, since it gets cold, stays cold, and they sand the roads with actual sand, unlike southern Ontario, where we season them liberally with salt to produce a wet slushy mess.

Snow tires are made with a rubber compound designed to work at temperatures below 4' C. All season tires have a compound that gets hard and inflexible below 4'. Snow tires are designed with smaller sipes in the tread blocks to provide grip on slick surfaces. This, combined with the softer compound, will give you excellent grip and traction in snow and on slick cold surfaces, something the AS's won't.

I got a set of 4 snow tires for my '95 Civic last winter for $300 installed. They were the first snow tires I'd bought in many years, having muddled through (by necessity) on AS's. The previous year, we had a 4" snowfall and my Civic couldn't even make it up the gentle hill to my street. This year we had a 6" snowfall, and I drove right through it, with confidence. The peace of mind you have in hitting the brakes on snow and slush and ice with snow tires is well worth the few extra dollars you'll save by going with AS's for the year.

Even the cheap snows you can get from Wally World are going to be a huge improvement over your all seasons come winter time. About the only "all season" tire that might be better than a general all season are the "aqua tread" types designed to channel water away - since most of the time the roads are more wet than slippery, since we use more salt than anything else in the winter.

[ezdays]

I saw this thread and had to ask myself, "do they really make tires out of snow?" We have, "all season" tires here in Arizona, they're kinda made out of a blend of wood, ground cactus and steel. They don't ride really good, but they won't melt and stick to the road like them there rubber ones do. :? It really doesn't matter what time of the year it is, that can happen summer or winter, that's why we call them "All Season tires"... But tires made from snow, I wouldn't give them much hope, even up north... Or am I reading this wrong? You'll have to excuse me if I am, I've been living out here in the desert just a few years too long, and we've just had one of the hottest summers ever and I think the heat kind of baked my brain a bit.

[ezdays]

Oh, BTW, if you weren't aware, I was just joking. Yes, we do have "all season" tires here, but they're made of rubber, and no, I've never had the occasion to put on snow tires even though I think we can buy them here. I have a heated window washer fluid dispenser in my Avalanche that they keep bugging me to get fixed because of a recall. I always wondered why a dealer would equip a vehicle being sold in the Phoenix area with that kind of feature.

[Sumpter250]

I have a heated window washer fluid dispenser in my Avalanche that they keep bugging me to get fixed because of a recall. I always wondered why a dealer would equip a vehicle being sold in the Phoenix area with that kind of feature.

Better get that fixed Don. One of these days you'll hit the window washer to clear a large bug splat, and the combination of ambient temperature, and heated wash fluid, will melt your windshield!! hock:

[ezdays]

I have a heated window washer fluid dispenser in my Avalanche that they keep bugging me to get fixed because of a recall. I always wondered why a dealer would equip a vehicle being sold in the Phoenix area with that kind of feature.

Better get that fixed Don. One of these days you'll hit the window washer to clear a large bug splat, and the combination of ambient temperature, and heated wash fluid, will melt your windshield!! hock:

Now that you bring that up Pete, one problem we really have is that someday, by some remote chance that it is raining out while you're driving somewhere, you'll find that your windshield wiper blades are stuck to the glass and won't move. The fact that we get just a few inches of rain, and the 115 plus day does that. I'm not making this one up, this is a real fact of living here... We won't even talk about the rattlesnakes and scorpions now, will we?