Increasing electrical pick up

[MasonJar]

GEC -

Given the time interval since you "fixed" the problem, could it be that there is something else going on? My first thought at seeing the time elapsed is that you need to clean your track, pick-ups, wheels/backs of wheels, or something else. What state are these things in, compared with the installation of pick-ups?

Andrew

[doctorwayne]

Yeah, actually, the pick up problem and my E44s is again showing up. This time, having one pickup on each truck wasn't enough! In some cases, there was not track power "diagonally" across the two trucks, so i tried gluing thins plastic sheet to the bottom of the truck, then gluing another set of tomar shoes to pick up on the other side. The problem now is that they hang so low that they brush on track switches if there is a bump, and they are still vulnerable to imperfect track work. Its a major pain, i wonder if there is a way to wedge those kadee springs in the trucks in a more space effective way while still picking up current. I'll post pictures later.

This almost sounds like it's the trucks themselves which are causing the problem. I recall having similar issues with some re-motored Tenshodo geeps - the problem was the truck-mounting system didn't allow enough flexibility, with the result that any irregularity in the track would lift enough wheels to stall the loco. It's been too many years to recall how I solved that problem, but it might give you an idea of what to look for.
Another possible cause of your troubles could be the wheels touching the sideframes - you could isolate the sideframes by using plastic mounting screws and a washer made from electrician's tape, or coat their back surface with clear nail polish.

This, of course, still doesn't address the fact that you've got pick-up on only four wheels. The best, but unfortunately not cheapest, solution to this is to replace the wheelsets. NWSL offers ones with both wheels insulated - with suitable wheel wipers, you could have all 12 wheels working to keep the current flowing.

Wayne

[WT fan]

I've made another experience. If you have wheels made of nickel silver you have nearly no problems. I've learned this with my GE 44-ton.

Wolfgang

[Green_Elite_Cab]

GEC -

Given the time interval since you "fixed" the problem, could it be that there is something else going on? My first thought at seeing the time elapsed is that you need to clean your track, pick-ups, wheels/backs of wheels, or something else. What state are these things in, compared with the installation of pick-ups?

Andrew

Nah, I was originally hoping to run these things for my train show. that track was spotless for the train show. The problem was that the E44s had particular track pick-ups (the front truck picks up the "right" hand rails, the rear picks up the left hand rails). In some spots, particularly around insulated switches, the rails were not powered. I tested this with a voltmeter, and at the location of the pick-ups, there was no power. An all wheel pickup engine would be able to "reach over" the insulated gap, but not the E44s.

This necessitated adding another set of pick up shoes, which has been its own set of nightmares. The bottom of the E44 truck has a "ridge" where the truck gears come down between the axles. It was already low clearance as it was, and there wasn't a whole lot of room to insulate and add more tomar shoes. At first, they hung so low that it would hit diamonds and switches, lifting the truck off the rail and hold the locomotive up. I was able to remove the shoes and "shorten" them so that they didn't it the switches so much, but they're still problematic. I may just need to buy a whole new set of tomar shoes and laminated them with the thinnest plastic i can find.

This almost sounds like it's the trucks themselves which are causing the problem. I recall having similar issues with some re-motored Tenshodo geeps - the problem was the truck-mounting system didn't allow enough flexibility, with the result that any irregularity in the track would lift enough wheels to stall the loco. It's been too many years to recall how I solved that problem, but it might give you an idea of what to look for.

I've seen this happen in at least one location. In fact, that was the one major trouble spot that killed my E44s everytime. Maybe i could loosen the trucks up? they're held in by a screw and a spring that allows a little bit of travel for the trucks. I tightened that screw pretty good, and while the trucks still move freely, it may help to let them roll a little more loosely.

I was originally blaming the track (this area was recently ripped up and rearranged when the problem began showing up, and that track is rough), but it could very well be the trucks, as i've had problems on known dips and hills on the layout.

Another possible cause of your troubles could be the wheels touching the sideframes - you could isolate the sideframes by using plastic mounting screws and a washer made from electrician's tape, or coat their back surface with clear nail polish.

I've watched for this as well, but i don't think this is the issue, as the wheels don't appear to be able to touch the side frames. I physically tried moving them with my fingers, and they stayed right about where they were. I may still try isolating them, just so that they don't hit the frame or something and cause a short.

This, of course, still doesn't address the fact that you've got pick-up on only four wheels. The best, but unfortunately not cheapest, solution to this is to replace the wheelsets. NWSL offers ones with both wheels insulated - with suitable wheel wipers, you could have all 12 wheels working to keep the current flowing.

Wayne

Price isn't so extreme to me unless its particularly expensive to do. I'm not sure how to do wheel wipers on this thing though, i already tried that with brass strip and it didn't appear that effective. Perhaps that phosphur bronze material would work better?

[Schraddel]

@GEC

It is a steamer, but it is a suggestion what may help you:

Original pick up was only by the axle bearings of the non insulated wheels of the loco and the non insulated ones ot the tender.

The pick up of your E33 is electrically similar.
The current has to flow through the axle bearings and in case of proper lubrication the oil could block electrical current. Not every time, but often sometimes.
In the case of the steamer shown above it was also.
My solution was 0.5mm brass wire.
One soldered directly to the brass bottom plate to wipe directly on the wheel rims, thus eliminating current flow only through the axle bearings.
The other one was soldered together with a wire ton an piece of 0.2mm copper sheet.
This was glued with ACC to an piece of 0.3mm styrene sheet.
And this device was glued also with ACC to the bottom plate.
The other end of the wire was soldered in this case simple to the tender coupling link.

In your case i made you the suggestion to solder the wire direct to the motor or decoder.
A second wire soldered to the bottom plate also leads to motor or decoder.
Thus eliminating uncertain current flow through the pivots of the trucks.

I hope this may help you to solve the problem.

Greetings Lutz

[Green_Elite_Cab]

@GEC

It is a steamer, but it is a suggestion what may help you:
Original pick up was only by the axle bearings of the non insulated wheels of the loco and the non insulated ones ot the tender.

The pick up of your E33 is electrically similar.
The current has to flow through the axle bearings and in case of proper lubrication the oil could block electrical current. Not every time, but often sometimes.
In the case of the steamer shown above it was also.

The locomotives question are a more recent "Alpha" offering, which differ from the old "Alco" E44.. On these models, pick-up is achieved by a pair of wipers, on on each truck. It is mounted between the truck and the sideframe, and reaches two wheels. the other wheel on the axle is insulated, but the whole truck is "energized" for those two polarities. Because it only does have 4 wheel pick up (two on one side in the front, two on the other side in the back), it doesn't do a good job of collecting power. a whole axle on each doesn't collect power at all. the other 8 wheels are being wasted.

I've actually gotten a hold of a piece of phosphor bronze to use as pick-up material to use, and i'm going to try do make a set up similar to the original brass strip one i made earlier. The hope is that the phosphor bronze will be a little bit easier to work with, and a little more "springy", keeping contact with the wheels. It will be a pain in the but do do again, but if it gets these things all wheel pick-up, it will be worth it.