Powering frogs on custom line turnouts
#1
I have around 20 to 25 Atlas custom line turnouts already installed on the new layout I am currently building that I know realize most if not all of them will need to have the frogs powered. I was testing out a 2-10-2 that I had just installed a Tsunami sound decoder in last night and at prototypical yard speeds 5mph even the big loco stalled out when it hit the non powered frogs. So I think rather then go the toggle switch route or power via the tortoise switch machines I am going to use Tam Valley Depot's Hex Frog Juicer, You can power up to six frogs with one board and you need to run a single wire from the frog to the HFJ controller.

My question is can I just drill hole through the roadbed etc. and feed a wire maybe a 22g through small hole thats cast into the frog on the Atlas turnout and solder the wire to it or is there more involved?
Thanks


http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/h...uicer.html
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#2
This is what I discovered when I was powering the frogs on my layout. using the same turn-outs as you:

First, I experimented with soldering directly to the frog.... doesn't work. The metal that the frog is cast from just won't accept solder. As I tried and tried, I put more and more heat, and of course, I melted the plastic and warped the turn-out, and the frog fell off.

So... my solution was to tap a 1-72 screw hole in the existing hole in the frog. Then run a brass screw through the hole and solder your wire to that. Yes, the screwhead is visible from above, but some paint hides them nicely. Doing this before the turnouts are installed is a simple matter.

Now... concerning your situation. I did have a couple of the turn-outs installed before I realized I would need to put power to the frogs. I took a piece of "music wire" and snipped it off at an angle. I chucked that in a drill and then, starting at the top and using the frog hole as a guide, I drilled a pilot hole down through the layout. Then I took a 1/4" bit and drilled a hole from the bottom up to the frog. Now, be very careful when doing this, as you don't want the destroy the turnout with the 1/4" bit. Luckily, my layout is made from 1/4 plywood with 2" foam on top of that, so I was only drilling in foam when I got close to the turnout from underneath.

Next, I took 4" of scrap rail and filed one end down to a screwdriver tip. I soldered the rail in the screw slot of a 1-72 screw. Then I soldered a piece of feeder wire to the rail, about 1" from the screw. Then I used the rail as a screwdriver to run the screw up into the tapped hole in the frog. I did snug the screw up pretty tight by using pliers to turn the rail, but again, be cautious that you don't twist the frog out of the turnout. Then I snipped the rail off even with the bottom of the plywood, leaving just the wire coming out of the hole in the plywood.

Adjustments to the details I give above will need to be made based on exactly how thick and what your benchwork is made from.

If you need, I can make some drawings or whatever if any of the above isn't clear. Just let me know. And, I hope this helps!

Even though you have quite alot of turnouts to do, if you sit down at your workbench and make all of the screw/rail/wire assemblies at one time, I don't think it will be that difficult.
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#3
I had the same problem on my previous layout (current one has "live" frogs... Goldth ). The picture shows how I solved this. I joined the two closure rails with a little copper tab, and then routed a small wire from the tab to the rivet at the frog. I cut out the ties to pass the wire so it wouldn't intefere with proper seating of the turnout. The fix was bareIy visible from the top side. Of course, I had to remove the turnouts to do this operation, but it was worth it...!!


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Gus (LC&P).
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#4
Steam, what brand/model of turnout did you do that with? On an Atlas Cusotmline, connecting the two tracks as shown in your photo would result in a short circuit.
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#5
A couple of additional notes on my first post.... I didn't mention in my instructions, but when installing the screw from below, obviously you have to tap the hole in the frog first. And, once the 1-72 screw is installed, you can cut it flush with the frog by using a dremel tool and some care.
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#6
It's an Atlas C. Line....At least that's what's molded into the ties....You don't create a short c'cuit because each closure rail takes on the polarity of the stock rail it is up against. Since only one point rail can be touching a stock rail at any one time, the closure rails take on this polarity, which in turn is "fed" to the frog.....
Gus (LC&P).
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#7
How old are those turnouts? The Atlas custom-Line Code 83 turnouts I have been using do not look like that and are not built that way electrically. Here is a diagram showing how the Custom-Line turnouts I have seen are built: (drawing is from Allan Gartner's DCC web page - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wiringfordcc.com/">http://www.wiringfordcc.com/</a><!-- m --> )

[Image: sw_typ1.gif]

As shown in the drawing, the stock rail is factory connected to the closure rail - connecting the two closure rails would be a short circuit. I am quite certain of this - looking at the bottom of a customline code 83 turnout, I see two nickel-silver plates which are located directly under the intersection of the point - stock - closure rails on each side.

[Image: image.php?album_id=125&image_id=2167]

Before we go any further, we need to find out exactly what turnouts are being used in the original post.
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#8
Hmmmm..My turnouts were purchased probably in the mid-80's, that makes them about 25 yrs. old....
Since I no longer use these (I vowed not to use ANY A's turnouts in the new layout) I wasn't aware that there was a new, "improved" version.... Goldth
Gus (LC&P).
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#9
Before you give up on soldering the frog, try Stay-Brite silver bearing solder use Stay Clean flux with it. It is a soft solder with a little silver in the alloy, and I have found that it solders to a lot of materials that 50/50, 40/60, and 95/5 won't work with. It is probably a bit more expensive than the more common solders, and as far as I know, you won't find it at any big box home center. You probably need to get it at a welding supply store. The flux is a liquid about the consistency of water, so use a cheap paint brush to apply it. I used it in refrigeration work with copper pipes and user an acid brush to apply the flux, but for modeling, the acid brush would be too big. I would try the cheapest water color brushes you can get. The kind that wold come in a child's water color set.
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