Programming Decoders for Prototypical Sound and Movement
#1
Rather then tack on to my existing Tsunami Thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

In short I'm looking for advice and knowledge from those who know better and have more experience then I do. I'll explain...

While tooling with my engine and its new found baritone voice, I began to wonder about prototypical sound and the suggested programming recommendations from Soundtraxx as well as JMRI. They suggest a particular way of programming the loco to behave like a slow speed switcher so that you have incredibly slow speed control for a large percentage of the speed steps until the very end of the speed curve when motor speed is finally ramped up to top speed. So I've been experimenting and doing a tiny bit of research in the form of watching videos of Geeps doing some yard switching. There are a handful of videos which have actually helped give me some incredible insight. I readily admit that my exposure to and watching of the real thing is next to non existent and that a handful of Youtube videos is a poor substitute. :oops:

I have however, observed some interesting things when operating my loco according to suggested setting for a switching unit. I can see how someone can get lost in all this... I also thought that the suggested settings could not be right while the loco creeped along as the engine sound whined to fevered pitch and intensity... (at least to me...) Misngth

So as I mentioned with the loco programed to operate as suggested it is very slow for dozens of speed steps according to my Pro/Power Cab. This allows me to "crank" the engine to wind up as it continues to creep along at a snails pace like it would when pulling or pushing a heavy load. I assume that this is the notching* up sound I hear in the videos I've watched as the engine picks up speed and then by rolling the Cab Wheel back down without stopping it winds down once it gets moving without slowing it down. This is kinda cool, but I guess I'd like to see it pick up a little bit more speed as it notches up...I can customize in JMRI through trail and error. So I'm getting there I guess. I am going to play with the momentum settings a bit though as it stops a little to abruptly when kicked down to zero.

What I'd like to know is how have other people set up their engines with regards to sound and prototypical operation?

Perhaps we can use this thread to share information on what CV's we have used to achieve the operating sounds and engine behavior we like?

I'd love to hear from you guys. Thanks. Thumbsup
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#2
Adding a little momentum gets the sound to ramp up before the loco changes speed, simulatign the time it takes to load. Don't use too much, especially for a switcher, as that tends to make switching 'interesting'. While the loco coasting even with no cars coupled is realistic, we don;t get an independent brake to stop it. You probably just want to put momentum on for acceleration and leave the decelleration at 0 so it stops when you shut the throttle down.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#3
rrinker Wrote:Adding a little momentum gets the sound to ramp up before the loco changes speed, simulatign the time it takes to load. Don't use too much, especially for a switcher, as that tends to make switching 'interesting'. While the loco coasting even with no cars coupled is realistic, we don;t get an independent brake to stop it. You probably just want to put momentum on for acceleration and leave the decelleration at 0 so it stops when you shut the throttle down.

--Randy

Good Point. Thumbsup
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#4
Teeters, I have some decoders that have a brake, F6 or F7, and I use some Deceleration. It depends on the individual locomotive how much, then I use the brake to stop. Prototype coupling speed is a Maximum of 4 MPH which is darned hard. We tried to make couplings that all you heard was the pin drop.

Prototypical switchers (not road switchers) have a quick generator load and start moving rather quickly unless there are more cars then the locomotive is designed to handle at one time. ALCO S-1's and S-2's load and start pulling instantly while the EMD's tend to lag for a few seconds. I have no experience with the GE switchers, so I can't guess what they do other then what I have seen in steel mill operations, and watching is not the same as operating them. Steam switchers had the small diameter wheels which gave them quick starts and low top speeds.
For switching I would start with Start voltage 10. ACC 10 and DEC 10. You might play with the kick start (CV 65)if the decoder has it.
I really need to make better notes of my locomotive settings, I do it all manually, and so far my notes would fit on a pin head. Misngth
Charlie
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#5
Charlie B Wrote:Teeters, I have some decoders that have a brake, F6 or F7, and I use some Deceleration. It depends on the individual locomotive how much, then I use the brake to stop. Prototype coupling speed is a Maximum of 4 MPH which is darned hard. We tried to make couplings that all you heard was the pin drop.

Prototypical switchers (not road switchers) have a quick generator load and start moving rather quickly unless there are more cars then the locomotive is designed to handle at one time. ALCO S-1's and S-2's load and start pulling instantly while the EMD's tend to lag for a few seconds. I have no experience with the GE switchers, so I can't guess what they do other then what I have seen in steel mill operations, and watching is not the same as operating them. Steam switchers had the small diameter wheels which gave them quick starts and low top speeds.
For switching I would start with Start voltage 10. ACC 10 and DEC 10. You might play with the kick start (CV 65)if the decoder has it.
I really need to make better notes of my locomotive settings, I do it all manually, and so far my notes would fit on a pin head. Misngth
Charlie

Thanks for this advice. I intend to make notes this time around as well as print outs of the decoder settings when I get the decoder programmed the way I like. Just incase something drastic happens... Confusedhock:
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#6
Definitely take notes and keep a log of the CVs you try and their effects. I created a three ring binder with plastic page holders where I keep my loco and decoder info. Each loco has its own page protector. In it are the loco and decoder instruction sheets and loco exploded views, and a table which has the most used CVs and what their latest setting was. If I change something, i just mark it in the next column inthe chart.

Since my layout is essentially a switching layout, all of the locos are programmed for lower speed operation. A typical set-up may be as follows:

CV02 start voltage = 15 to 30 (set so the loco just begins to move when the throttle is advanced from zero)
CV03 accel rate = 0 (although I may change this based on Randy's commentary above)
CV04 decel rate = 0
CV05 max voltage = 100 to 120 (I don't want my visitors running the locos at a high rate of speed)
CV06 mid range = set at about 2/3rds of the value between CV02 and CV05 for more low end control

Now, the subject of playing with the CVs can be a hobby unto itself. it is easy to find oneself playing with all the Cvs instead of actually running the trains!
Three Foot Rule In Effect At All Times
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#7
Tetters,
Are you using Decoder- Pro? I don't recall if you are.
Tsunami's do not support CV5 or 6
For slow speed operation you need to set the CV's 2,3 and 4 to zero. Then find CV209 and 210, if you have not changed them they should be 25 and 20.
Set CV210 first- set to about 10 or so. now run the loco at speed step 1. You want to set 210 so the loco just moves (it will be jerky) so you may have to play with the CV210 a bit. Now go to CV209 and try to smooth it out by changing CV209. You might have to go back and change CV210 again too.
It will take a while to get it just right for you.
Hope that you are using Decoder-Pro as it is much faster to work with when you are doing this.
You can also set the speed tables to fit your needs also.
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#8
Awesome. This is just where I was hoping this discussion would go. I am using decoder pro, so making changes to CV's is a snap. Thumbsup
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#9
I played around with the loco last night while trying different values for CV's 209 and 210. I left 210 at 4 and 209 at 25 ....I think. I see what you mean by the jerky motion. I'd play with both values, get it just about right and think, "I've almost got it." Go to the next value and it would start spazzing again. So any how...this has helped so far. I'll still play with it a bit more and see if I can smooth it out a bit. The lowest I could get CV 210 was three before the loco would altogether stop moving*, and it would just creep along, but I haven't found a value for 209 that would remove the jerkiness when set at three. Granted I didn't go as high as 40 for CV 209 and the jerky motion was subtle. Perhaps I need to keep increasing the value or I'm being too critical?

Right now I can couple the loco so slow that it doesn't move the car its coupling to until the couplers are fully engaged. Neat stuff.

*(I read in the Tsunami manual that if you put both values to 0 the loco will not move.)

I'd still like to be able to notch the engine sound though at slow speeds. Is there a way to do this to get that EMD whine out of the decoder when its just starting to accelerate under load? It's a neat sound effect I'd like to be able to duplicate.

Edit...NM. I found what I was looking for.

"Manual Notching
As the name implies, Manual Notching allows you to control the engine RPMs manually and independently of the throttle setting. Manual Notching allows for more prototypical operating scenarios such as having a heavy train slowly climb a grade while the engines are laboring at full power.
To use Manual Notching, set CV 116 to 0. Then, the engine RPMs will increase by one notch each time Function 9 is pressed. Similarly, the RPMs can be decreased using Function 10. Unlike Automatic Notching, pressing Emergency Stop will reduce the engine speed to idle. Once the engine is idling, you shut it off by pressing Function 10."


Sure helps to read the manual sometimes don't it. Misngth
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#10
Don't know what you have in CV2, but somtimes it helps to put in just a little start voltage, like 2 or3.
Have fun.
Yea, reading the manual will bring about all kinds of things you did not know. LOL
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#11
Have you seen this Youtube video guide for programming Tsunami sound decoders using Decoder Pro? <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SXhF_NMW-w">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SXhF_NMW-w</a><!-- m -->
There are also these animated demos by Peter Ulvestad of the Edmonton Model Railroad Association. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nmra.org.au/region/DP-Demo.html">http://www.nmra.org.au/region/DP-Demo.html</a><!-- m -->
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