Plug-n-Play decoder, non-Plug-n-Play Loco?
#16
Bil I'll try this again. I just was about to post some links for you, so of course I had to test one, and when I hit the back button the page had expired.
The RDG S-2 s appear to have a single note horn mounted in the front center of the cab. I don't know the manufacturer, (after searching It sounds like the Leslie A200 but I remember how they sounded. These were the standard horn for many switchers.
here are some horns
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dieselairhorns.com/sounds.html?album=5">http://www.dieselairhorns.com/sounds.html?album=5</a><!-- m -->
and if you go to the Reading section of the fallen flags site you will find 3 pictures of the S-2s all showing the horn.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rdg/rdg.html">http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rdg/rdg.html</a><!-- m -->
Charlie
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#17
Boy! Thanks for all the dedicated help! I so appreciate it!

The Reading units based on the data and photos offered here do show the single trumpet horn centered by the roof above the cab windows on the hood end. The photos show much interesting detail, except the name cast into the base of the horn is not quite legible! Therefore, your first hand knowledge and considered speculation is even more than a steam guy having his first diesel lessons could ask! (I have a first edition of the Diesels Spotters Guide, but I only got it because I was ordering a half-dozen for the hobby shop and I got an extra 1/4% discount from the distributor if I ordered more than 6 copies. Now it comes in handy!)

Squid ... I didn't have to cut one piece of corrugated for a speaker mock-up. After looking "under the hood" (Oh, yeah! I'm a bit of a hot rod guy!) I decided I would measure available volumes and then pick the speaker based on cubic millimeters I had to fill. I like all of your advice on sealing off the space ... that same principle works in 1:1 scale stereo speakers, too!

[The architect's office where I worked putting myself through design school was on the second floor of a small, two story office building right off Rittenhouse Square in Downtown, Center City Philly. It had a drafting room at the back with a vaulted two-story-high ceiling, with a vaulted glass greenhouse ceiling in the middle of it ... a huge space! The architect had built these gigantic Klipsch folded horn speaker enclosures that had fiberglas batt insulation lining them and they were sealed up tighter than brand new custom insulated double-pane glass storm windows. They also had 15" pressure equalizers in them. One night, the two of us were working late (past 11:00 PM,) he cranked up the 1200W tube-type Macintosh Amp while playing the Band's "Up on Cripple Creek" on the Empire Turntable. If you know that song, you could feel the thump-thump-tha-dumpdumpdump" of the bass guitar and bass drum in your chest. It was only 15 minutes before Philadelphia's Finest had strolled over from "The Square" and were ringing the doorbell! It seems people in the ritzy high-rise condominiums and hotels overlooking the Square (a couple blocks away, but above us by more than a couple floors) had complained about the noise at that hour!]

Right!

Wherever I do finally put the speaker, Squid, I'll seal the space up good and tight after adding some sound deadener on the inside!

EDIT: OCD made me correct typos and misspelled words!
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#18
Hold on, I'll go get my Reading loco diagrams book and see just which single note honker they had.

Rats, no info. Some of them mention the horn type, others do not. Some EMD switchers had Typhon single note horns - it would probably be reasonable to assume they were somewhat consistent, but the place to ask is on the Readign Modeler web site.

As for function limits - not an issue with Reading locos, they had 2 lights - front and rear. No beacons, no strobes, no Mars lights, no ditch lights.

And as for programming - yes they all work with programmign on the main and no booster, but it does defeat the idea of a low current program track to TEST things before you put it on the full power main track. On the program track, a wiring mistake won't fry that shiny new $100+ sound decoder. Might be a quirk of the MRC system but I've been able to program CV17 and CV18 directly on QSI decoders, no fooling with the index values (at least for address). Plus the Rev-U worked on the programming track, changing the address directly without any CV17/18 calculations. None of the sound decoders are particularly 'easy' to configure, there are just so many options. This is what DecoderPro is for.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#19
rrinker Wrote:Hold on, I'll go get my Reading loco diagrams book and see just which single note honker they had.

Rats, no info. Some of them mention the horn type, others do not. Some EMD switchers had Typhon single note horns - it would probably be reasonable to assume they were somewhat consistent, but the place to ask is on the Reading Modeler web site. ... -- Randy

The Reading Modeler is the site that I alluded to earlier where I had several "Looky-Lou's" but no info offered. I just got two subscriber notices in my inbox, and holding off on Big Blue as saving the best for last, I went to the Reading Modeler first. The posting was some person with a total of four posts who I'm sure had all the best intentions when he asked me what scale the S-2 in question was.

I then came here to read your informative input, Randy, and to listen once more to the sound samples that Charlie had posted above to see if I couldn't match them up by switching back and forth between his sounds and the Soundtraxx sounds. I'll let you know ... tomorrow ... I'm going to try to go to bed, after a nebulizer breathing treatment and about a half hour or so of long, slow, deep pulls on the oxygen cylinder ... we'll see how i feel then ... whether I dare lay down or stay up to try to improve my O2 level before I risk getting prone and falling asleep ...

... feeling just a bit tight right now ... don't want to go back to that Hell Hole they pretend is a hospital in this town ... I'm not over what I caught the last time I was there!!!!!!
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#20
rrinker Wrote:And as for programming - yes they all work with programmign on the main and no booster, but it does defeat the idea of a low current program track to TEST things before you put it on the full power main track. On the program track, a wiring mistake won't fry that shiny new $100+ sound decoder. Might be a quirk of the MRC system but I've been able to program CV17 and CV18 directly on QSI decoders, no fooling with the index values (at least for address). Plus the Rev-U worked on the programming track, changing the address directly without any CV17/18 calculations. None of the sound decoders are particularly 'easy' to configure, there are just so many options. This is what DecoderPro is for.

Randy,

Fair enough... and my setup isn't typical for most people. I do the smoke test with a USB-2-Rails at the bench, then take the loco to the layout. As for programming the QSI's on the test track, I haven't had much success with the OEM ones using the MRC programming track either... they seem to need the index method regardless of how I try to program them.

Bil,

Yes, it's amazing what those old Klipsch horns could do. Not many people realize that the sound in movie theatres was delivered with a paltry 20 watts or so and some honking big horns. I'm a single-driver bug, so I've built a few folded-horn and TQWP speakers... someday in my copious spare time ( Nope ) I'm going to try playing with folded baffle arrangements for DCC speakers to see if I can shape the sound profile a little more... although trying to get any volume at the lower frequencies in HO models is a challenge at the best of times. Heck, I'd be glad to find the time just to put a few of these little speakers on the spectrum analyser just to see what they actually reproduce.
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#21
Squidbait Wrote: Yes, it's amazing what those old Klipsch horns could do. Not many people realize that the sound in movie theatres was delivered with a paltry 20 watts or so and some honking big horns. ... someday in my copious spare time ... play with folded baffle arrangements for DCC speakers to see if I can shape the sound profile a little more ... put a few of these little speakers on the spectrum analyser just to see what they actually reproduce.

As an Industrial Designer for thirty-five plus years, I have gathered enough little tidbits of knowledge to sound like I know what I'm talking about on a broad array of topics, as long as the conversation doesn't drag on for too long. Big Grin 357

And, yes, I'd be interested to know of any simple stunt or tiny trick, including results of the analyzer, designed to give us better, deeper sound from our models!

[the opposite is at work in the cooling slots and louvers on your heat-generating electronics equipment! The width and length of those cooling slots is determined in reality not by the need to cool, but by the RFI wave length we need to keep in or keep out. The you must figure out how to pass enough air through those slots to cool the electronics ... got a three inch pancake fan?]
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#22
Traffic is a bit light on The Reading Modeler, but there are definitely people there who know their stuff. "Tooling" is a director at the RCT&HS and in charge of all the motive power the society owns. If it's own a Reading locomotive, he probably knows it. Of course, we don't have any S-2's... Did you put it in the modeling section of the prototype section? I suppose there are some people who don't read both even though it's often days between posts. Or maybe people just like RS-3's better - if you saw the two threads on those, you'll see there were tons of information provided in both the model and prototype sections.
Everything I can find points to the horn being a Leslie Typhon A200, but I can't find anything that specifically says "Reading S-2s came equipped with".

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#23
Thanks for the "heads up" about the traffic on the Reading Modeler ... I was getting frustrated, and then was asked what scale S-2 I was asking about by a suspected "young 'un" attempting to give a "seasoned citizen" advice by first asking a question that indicates he just "skimmed" the question and didn't actually read it, word for word. Nope

And ... my bad ... my inability to sleep for any length of time is catching up with me ... 35 35 35

I suppose I asked a question on the Modeling Section (because I am working on a model) when I should have asked it on the Prototype Section (because the model is based on a prototype!) 35 Wallbang Wallbang I'll have to rectify that!

And so the best guess to date is the Leslie Typhon A200 (it seems that we have two votes for the A200 -- Charlie B. and Randy ... works for me!) I was hoping it was the Leslie A125 as that has some character -- the A200 is a rather "dull-sounding" horn. But so be it, unless other info turns up to the contrary.

[If the sun ever comes out from hiding today, I'll take a display track outside and create a couple digital images of my most recent piece of "modern motive power."]
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#24
A lot will depend on how the locomotive is built. Where they have the gear towers and drive line set up.
Most of the time you can build a shelf to set the decoder onto. I would use the AT board, as it is a little easier to work with (IMO).You have track pickup terminals at each end of the decoder to work with (less wires for you to mess with) Has a 1.5 volt terminal for lights ( most brass units use 1.5 volt bulbs)
For the speaker?? are there any see through grills? If there are you can mount the speaker so it is covering the grill from the inside so the sound will exit through the grill(s) If there are no grills you will have to mount the speaker facing down on the main frame of the unit. You will need to drill holes in the floor to do this. A 16MM X 35MM speaker will provide plenty of sound. Don't for get you must find a place for the capacitor too.
Does this unit have all 8 wheels picking up power?
Do you have a photo of the unit with the shell removed? Might be of some help for ideas.
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#25
Well, Gentlemen, the reply from Soundtraxx Technical Support Management arrived early this afternoon!

Mr. Irish suggested, in part, that I …

“ … take some tape and secure around the board so it is wrapped like the universal style board so that it can't contact anything, also make sure to NOT use an acidic base solder flux. Other than that it is a very straight forward installation. … The decoder would be completely covered under warranty, just save your receipt and if the install fails and you need to send it in I'll get that file loaded to a TSU-1000, but let’s try the production one first.

- Jarrette”


By the “production one,” he is referring to the TSU-AT1000 decoder, which is a “Plug-n-Play” replacement for the “light board” inside an Atlas Alco S-2.

So, who am I to spurn the advice of one of the “Big Guys” at Soundtraxx. I’ll go ahead and give it a the old college try as advised, although I believe I will find a more elegant way to isolate the board than to merely wrap it in tape plus give it a chance to “breathe” at the same time. (If it seems I’m preoccupied with breathing … well, I am!)

The sun never really burned through the overcast today (clouds must be from that tropical storm down around Cuba) so I took the little S-2 outside anyway, figuring flat light, no disturbing shadows to deal with and I was correct. “Horace Dodge” loaned the use of the top of his pick-up bed toolbox for a solid surface on which to place the necessary white melamine board and the display track for taking photos.

First, a “builders photo” …

[Image: AlcoS-2-FullSideView.jpg]
[Oh, and that's handlaid code 70 rail on Campbell Profile ties, four spikes on every tie, painted railweb and a mix of Campbell ballast.]

… followed by removing the shell …

[Image: AlcoS-2-ShellDriveMechanism.jpg]

… and then, the “prime mover” and the drive mechanism.

[Image: AlcoS-2-ShellRemoved.jpg]

Ah … Squidbait, you and Randy were right! There’s not much wasted space under that hood! I’m going to have to get creative about how and where to mount a speaker! But then …


I just love a good creative challenge!!


2285_
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#26
That is one pretty looking brass loco. Confusedhock:

Good luck with the install, please do post up photos of your solutions.
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#27
Eek Those are some scary-tall gear towers! They must come up to the bottom of the cab windows?

Not a lot of clearance over the top in the hood for a speaker there, I think. Therefore I think you're going to need to go with a deck in the cab just over the top of the gear tower, and put a speaker over/under it (depending on looks vs. clearance). What's the fuel tank look like? Any chance of making that your speaker enclosure?
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#28
Squidbait Wrote:Eek Those are some scary-tall gear towers! They must come up to the bottom of the cab windows?
Not a lot of clearance over the top in the hood for a speaker there, I think. Therefore I think you're going to need to go with a deck in the cab just over the top of the gear tower, and put a speaker over/under it (depending on looks vs. clearance). What's the fuel tank look like? Any chance of making that your speaker enclosure?

Figures! It sat all apart on the "breakfast area work bench" all afternoon while I went to renew Horace Dodge's insurance (it fell due while I was in the hospital -- as did Horace's registration tag - now expired -- tomorrow's task) and came home, put it back together, moved booksheves to an area henceforth known as the Library to make room for the Weissport leg of the pending layout, did a breathing treatment, ate some supper and sat down here.

O.K. ... it sits on the end table next to me now. (BTW ... the horn no longer plays skyward!) The cab end towers are short of the cab window by about the thickness of the screw heads, the tops of which sit even with the window sills. I'll have to wait until I get the decoder (next month ... hopefully) and see if there isn't some room for a speaker to be stolen above one of the drive shafts, or maybe between the drive shaft and the floor -- I'll have to get out the dial-face calipers and take a bunch of measurements ... it'll be tight, but most of the time, ten or fifteen thousanths is all the clearance you need to squeeze something in and still have room for things to fullfill their assigned destiny ... after all, driveshafts only rotate!

Fuel tanks ... HA!... take a look! We have two good-sized battery boxes and a pair of cylindrical tanks hanging in between them. From the associated piping, they might be the fuel tanks ... whaddya say Charlie B.? Are they the fuel tanks or are they air tanks and the fuel tank is hiding somewhere else?

No, I'll just have to take my measurements now and maybe mock up some speakers based on published dims and see what happens. Fear not ... I'll keep you posted ... and I'll photograph each step along the way, because, being one of us, I know we need pictures! 357
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#29
For some reason i thought the fuel tank on an S2 was under the cab deck. Or maybe I am stuck on RS-1's. Anyway, that looks to be one heck of a challenge - it looks like that motor goes right to the top of the hood, leaving no room for the decoder on top. An expensive proposition but one that would allow a HUGE speaker and great sounds would be to replace the drive with a pair of either NWSL power trucks or some of those Bull Ant drives from Australia. Definitely NOT cheap, but the entire interior would be freed up and a pair of large oval speakers fitted in along with the decoder. And the cab would be clear so an interior could be installed.
Quick way to check, the dimensions of the decoder are given on the Soundtraxx page, cut a piece of styrene to that size and sitit on top of the motor and attempt to reinstall the shell. If it doesn't fit - definitely going to have to think of something else. I was concerned about width at first, an S2 hood is very narrow - a typical HO decoder like I use in my Geeps will NOT fit in my Proto Alcos, I have to use a smaller one. And it's all a width issue. But then after seeing the hood off - that's a HUGE can motor. It looks to me that even the TSU-1000 wouldn't fit in there other than in the cab, which is needed for the speaker. The smaller ones might, but you need to check the am draw of the motor. Both SOundtraxx and ESU have small versions of their sound decoders. QSI still does not.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#30
rrinker Wrote:For some reason i thought the fuel tank on an S2 was under the cab deck.

--Randy
The fuel tank is under the cab, 660 gallons. The box in the center below the frame holds the batteries. We had 4 4cells on each side. S1 and S2 were both like this. The round tanks are the main air reservoirs.
Charlie
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