DC/DCC

[Lester Perry]

I have MRC Prodigy Advanced and love it I am proof it is idiot proof. :hey: HEY WAYNE WHERE ARE YOU ?

[FCIN]

Really interesting thread.

Having just converted to DCC a couple of months ago, the appeal to me is the superior slow speed operation I get with DCC. Acquiring a couple of sound equipped DCC loco's really hooked me, but it's the speed control that really convinced me to go 100% DCC.

I have one of the finest DC walk around systems ever made (Loggers Supply WTA no longer available) that has adjustable pulse power and simulated braking/momentum and it can make some of the worst running DC loco's operate pretty darn well. Have always been very pleased with it - but still no comparison to the control that DCC gives me.

I don't plan on operating more than one loco at a time on my layout, but will no doubt switch motive power types from time to time. In fact, in addition to the 3 DCC equipped loco's I have, I also have 3 really nice running "DCC Ready" loco's, and plan to covert all of them to DCC (with sound???), as time and finances permit. I do like the fact that I can program in the loco's road number, so if I should have more than one loco on the layout, I can select the one I want to operate and let the other one still quietly in the shadows, without needing any sort of special block wiring.

I purchased a NCE PowerCab and am very pleased with it, although I do find it a bit bulky to carry around compared to what I've been used too. I'm still learning to master all the CV values that can be programmed on DCC loco's and what all I can do with the PowerCab, but it's not difficult. If I mess something up on a loco, I simply set CV8=8 and start again!

I, for one, don't see DC becoming a thing of the past for many years, if ever, but I do think the trend will be that every loco will come with at least a simple dual mode decoder out of the box, as Bachmann is now doing.

Having seen my DCC sound equipped loco's in operation, at least two of my model railroading buddies are now considering making the switch to DCC. Both having recently purchased a sound equipped HO loco that they are operating on DC. Sound effects on DC only, just don't quite cut it in my opinion, but still adds a new dimension.

I say go with DCC! The cost is coming down and no one says you have to convert all your loco's at once!

[Brakie]

Ed,One thing I do like about DCC is the wireless trottles since such throttles are ideal for long or large ISLs..

[doctorwayne]

:hey: HEY WAYNE WHERE ARE YOU ?

I'm back, sorta.
While most of you correctly surmised that I didn't actually convert my entire locomotive fleet , I'm getting some local help (hopefully this weekend) on the one loco converted. I can't post pictures and I'd prefer to not comment on my decoder problem until someone has looked it over. I have a very good idea, though, of what's wrong and am embarrassed to even mention it at this time. However, once the problem has been resolved, I won't hesitate to, as usual, take the opportunity to look foolish in person.

Wayne

[Lester Perry]

Ed,One thing I do like about DCC is the wireless trottles since such throttles are ideal for long or large ISLs..

I am as of now still tethered to the layout. I don't have the funds as of now to get that. But Christmas is comming soon and some discreetly left hints might be in order.

[FCIN]

Ed,One thing I do like about DCC is the wireless trottles since such throttles are ideal for long or large ISLs..

I'll probably be wired to my layout for some time to come since I couldn't justify the expense of going wireless with my first DCC system. Just got me a longer cable for the PowerCab and I can cover the whole layout. I do have a wireless DC system, along with a plug-in walkaround DC system - but am sticking with the DCC for the new layout. Just no comparison as far as operation goes.

[doctorwayne]

I'm finally back to report on my personal DCC adventure. It turns out that the decoder which I was using may be either a kitbash of an existing decoder or something built-up from components. There are 16 colour-coded wires sticking out one end, with the "works" wrapped in what appears to be some sort of black shrink wrap. The reason that my loco ran so well was because I had hooked it up to run as a DC locomotive - not as in a dual-mode decoder, but simply not using the decoder at all. The wires to which I connected don't even go through the decoder. What should have tipped me off is my complaint about not being able to adjust the CVs - I don't have a DCC controller or the power system to go with it. It did dawn on me after the fact, as I mentioned in my previous post, but I obviously had a serious "senior moment". :oops: :oops:
My local DCC guy played around with it last night after I left and did get it to work as a decoder in a test mule (not mine - most of which no longer have isolated motors). It supposedly performed okay, but he wasn't especially impressed. He couldn't figure out the purpose of the other extra wires,though. I'll give it, and the others, back to the guy who gave it to me (I did say they were cheap, although I guess you get what you pay for).

Today I took an Athearn 2-8-2 over for a demonstration run on DCC - this is an almost unmodified loco (I had already removed the headlight) and I'm familiar with its running characteristics, so I could get a sense of any differences in performance from DC operation. The decoder was indeed a simple installation (plug-in to that ugly "pigtail" after removing the dummy plug). The loco ran well after some initial fiddling (adjusting CVs?), with good slow speed control and a reasonable top speed. The hand-held wireless controller looked pretty intimidating, though and I'm sure that something simpler would suit my purposes - all I need is something to control direction and a throttle knob or button.
The loco was also run on his layout to demonstrate speed matching with a diesel and also to show the two running as a "consist".
I certainly appreciated him taking the time to go through this with me, but I came away less than impressed, not with the technology (it is impressive), but with its application to my situation. I have, for the most part, locos which are closely matched throughout their speed range on DC, and, of course, run well with one another in a "consist". I stated before my preference for no lights or sound, and I saw no detectable difference in low speed performance. Even in DC, most of my locos are capable of speeds slower than would be of use, except for starting and stopping, and certainly too slow for switching. Just because it's possible doesn't necessarily make it desireable.

It obvious that those of you using Digital Command Control are completely sold on its benefits for your particular situations. However, I think that I'll stick with my own version of DCC - Direct Current Control. It does everything I need simply - especially important for someone so simple as to think he was running digital with an analog system. DOH!!!

Wayne

[Gary S]

Well, glad you got some of the stuff figured out! And if you are satisfied with the DC for your layout, no need to change to DCC. But I am glad you gave it a shot to see what it's all about.

[P5se Camelback]

AHhhhhhhhhhh!

Thank you, doctorwayne!

I can now remove my hip waders! I was convinced all along that there was a growing mound of bovine excrement happening here.

I felt secure in my belief that since you eschew headlamps and feel no need for the addition of sound after working around mega-sound for many years in a steel mill, that you would be comfortable maintaining a one-operator Direct Current Control operation. I must smile now, in the realization that I was correct!

The hip-waders have been hosed down and are drip-drying in the garage.

[jglfan]

The loco was also run on his layout to demonstrate speed matching with a diesel and also to show the two running as a "consist".
Wayne[/quote]

Just thought I'd mention this: While I understand this demo was to demonstrate you can speed match most any locos, in practice, at least on my layout, I only speed match diesels. When I doublehead steam, I run the two independently. Not sure about other DCC systems, but Digitrax gives you two independent and easily operated throttles on each controller. I reason that the real steamers couldn't be operated in multiple by one crew! It adds to the enjoyment of running for me, as you need to pay attention. Particularly if you have one loco in front and another pushing, and have grades, etc. You need to watch the slack.

[Gary S]

jgl, do you run both of the locos yourself? That sounds pretty tough, even with the dual controls on the digitrax 40x.

[P5se Camelback]

Well, Gary, I'd agree that it does sound like a bit of a chore ... but then, he did say you had to pay attention to the slack! I'm certain running two locomotives, one at each end of a string of cars takes more than a little practice to get it right and not "overgather" the slack.

Imagine what I must have been like for the 1:1 scale guys, at either end of a half a mile of loaded hoppers, no radios -just whistles to communicate with! And sometimes there would be two or three stout Consolidations at the point, maybe another one or two mid-train and three or four more at the rear, putting a shoulder to the load, struggling to get those black diamonds up, out of the valley and on their way to market! It must have been very tricky, indeed!

I have a photo in one of my books about the Reading in the coal fields of Pennsylvania that shows such a train struggling up a fairly steep grade out of Shamokin at Buck Ridge, heading for Locust Summit. I often look at it and imagine what it must have been like to be a crewman in one of the locomotives, playing the throttle from the seat of your pants! I mean, you can just see the plumes of smoke from the lead locomotivess off in the distance and in the forground of the photo there are three camelback Consolidations at the rear, with the little wooden Class NMa four-wheel bobber tacked on behind!

The caption under a similar photo of a trio of Jersey Central Mikados in a similar setting refers to the locomotives as being "on their knees" climbing the grade ... there is a brakeman walking alongside the last hooper before the first of the three locomotives ... on their knees, indeed!

I find it amazing!

More power to you JGL guy for even attempting to run two locos independantly!

[doctorwayne]

Just thought I'd mention this: While I understand this demo was to demonstrate you can speed match most any locos, in practice, at least on my layout, I only speed match diesels. When I doublehead steam, I run the two independently. Not sure about other DCC systems, but Digitrax gives you two independent and easily operated throttles on each controller. I reason that the real steamers couldn't be operated in multiple by one crew! It adds to the enjoyment of running for me, as you need to pay attention. Particularly if you have one loco in front and another pushing, and have grades, etc. You need to watch the slack.

Some time ago, in another thread (and perhaps in another forum) I commented on someone's statement that he used DCC to facilitate the use of pushers, matching the speed ranges of all locos via the CV settings, then "consisting" the pushers with the lead locos and running the whole shebang as a single loco. While this might work for a straightforward grade, an up-and-down grade profile could cause problems. It seems to me that DCC affords an excellent opportunity to truly doublehead steam locos or to use pushers, with all locos controlled independently by individual operators. The consensus by that person and subsequent posters was that it would be "too difficult". In my opinion, what a misuse of technology and what a wasted opportunity.

As for doubleheading or using pushers, I do both, although the former is more common due to the severity of my grades. With all locos having "tonnage ratings", trains are seldom dispatched with insufficient power. Most of my locos run very well with one another, so having them controlled by a single throttle, while not truly prototypical, works well. The main difficulty arises when one loco has a markedly different starting voltage than the other - this doesn't cause a great deal of problems when doubleheading, as long as they run reasonably well together at normal track speed. However, it can create utter havoc when trying to use such a combination when running a pusher, and it doesn't matter which loco is on which end of the train. As train length increases, so do the possibilities for disaster, too.

Wayne

[jglfan]

I should note that while I do not speed match the steamers, I do adjust the cv that sets the voltage at the first speed step so that the loco starts to move at the first throttle step. This is important to success with pushers.

[poliss]

Try doing this on DC. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7iS5Nt9GxA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7iS5Nt9GxA</a><!-- m -->