DC/DCC

[doctorwayne]

Sorry, but I'm not sure to what you're referring. :?: Slow speed running, automatic uncoupling, and remotely controlled turnouts have been in use with DC for many years, as has synchronised sound. I watched the video twice, but must have missed something.

Wayne

[Lester Perry]

Sorry, but I'm not sure to what you're referring. :?: Slow speed running, automatic uncoupling, and remotely controlled turnouts have been in use with DC for many years, as has synchronised sound. I watched the video twice, but must have missed something.

Wayne

[poliss]

With the device fitted you can uncouple anywhere on the layout, not just at set places. No under track magnets needed.
Here's a video of the mechanism. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNwwGSjRqgE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNwwGSjRqgE</a><!-- m -->

[doctorwayne]

Hokay, that es-plains everythin.

I have a gadget that does the same, - it's called a Rix uncoupling tool. While it does require manual input from the train's operator, it will perform the same function, and will work between individual cars, too, not just on decoder-equipped locos.

I will give a nod to the technology demonstrated in your video link, but it's (so far) a limited capability. It does, however, offer such a possibility beyond "arm's length".

Wayne

[Ralph]

Wayne, I've been enjoying your posts in this thread. As a modeler who hasn't kept up with the latest technology in the hobby I sometimes feel a bit sheepish when conversations about DCC come up. Its therefore very nice to see such a wonderful layout as yours operate without all of the marvels of current technology. I find it inspiring. Don't get me wrong guys, I am impressed by what DCC has to offer but I'm quite content doing things the old fashioned way. I try not to be a Luddite about it all but I seem to have a certain limited comfort and interest level in the newer hobby technology. Knowing that you Wayne have achieved such a quality layout and enjoy operating it as you do is rather affirming for me.

Ralph

[faraway]

... doing things the old fashioned way...

I would not call it the old fashioned way. It tells a longs story if someone runs DC engines as smooth as most others do run DCC engines. DCC is a very welcome method to hide all the small mechanical problems an engine can have (not the large ones, that is beyond the decoder capabilities). It is therefore a clear sign of very well maintained and adjusted equipment if it runs equal to DCC engines. For most people (like me) it is simply easier to have a smooth operation with DCC than DC. With the right "old fashioned" skill you can almost do everything with DC what DCC can do. I can not change the gearbox to match the speed of engines in a consist. I can do the CVs only. I would be happy to have the skill to do gearboxes myself.
It is not better or worse, it is different.

[Lester Perry]

[P5se Camelback]

Like Ralph and doctorwayne, I am a DC guy "from way back." I have quite a number (a number somewhere between 15 and 19) older brass locomotives, all but the most recent acquisitions having the old Pittman-style open-frame motors. They run fairly well out of the box and those that have been given a "Superstructure-Off Tune-up" of insuring drivers are quartered, gears are lapped in and have the proper clearances and lash, are properly lubricated and then "run in" prior to paint, decals and weathering are fine running model railroad locomotives!

Some personal time and involvement is required. But building things and making locomotives and rolling stock operate as well as they can be made to operate used to be one of the skills that every model railroader was driven to learn. Today, it's more buy ready-to-run or pay someone else to do it because it's too time consuming and too much trouble to learn how to do it yourself! Besides ... I want it to be perfect now!

I'm going to give DCC a whirl because unlike Ralph and doctorwayne, I don't have a nice large, more-than-50%-finished layout ... I'm just starting to build one ... again ... And so I can build with DCC in mind. But I probably won't make the final wiring hook-ups until I get that first "Old Brass" piece remotored and decoder equipped! Then we'll see if I still want to consider 15+ more of that kind of Locomotive Tune-Up and added expense, which will still of necessity include all of the above mentioned tune-up steps anyway! Not that I mind doing those tune-ups... quite the contrary! They are a labor of love, and the satisfaction at the other end is pure, unadulterated button-popping pride in a job well done! Isn't that one of the great rewards of our hobby ... pride in a job well done?

[Lester Perry]

This survey was originaly just to satisfy my curiosity, it has turned into great conversation between real modelers. I for the most part like DCC. I also understand the line of thought to stay DC. It was not an easy decision for me as I had latching reed switches it all of my locomotives. The headlight was the power sign. just a little power to the track. enough to light the headlight but not move the train. wave a magnet over the engine the light comes on it is ready to go. No blocks. It appears that a real Model railroader will make what ever system he has work to meet his needs. there are advantages to both.
Lets go run some trains

[MountainMan]

Wayne, I've been enjoying your posts in this thread. As a modeler who hasn't kept up with the latest technology in the hobby I sometimes feel a bit sheepish when conversations about DCC come up. Its therefore very nice to see such a wonderful layout as yours operate without all of the marvels of current technology. I find it inspiring. Don't get me wrong guys, I am impressed by what DCC has to offer but I'm quite content doing things the old fashioned way. I try not to be a Luddite about it all but I seem to have a certain limited comfort and interest level in the newer hobby technology. Knowing that you Wayne have achieved such a quality layout and enjoy operating it as you do is rather affirming for me.

Ralph

I share this feeling. In my case, I feel that running my layout will be my paramount interest rather thasn investing a lot of time, energy and money into constantly evolving technology.

The problem with DCC isn't the concept; at the moment it's like the history of audio - Tape players and eight tracks gave way to casettes which gave way to large format casettes which gave way to small format casettes which gave way to CD's which are giving way even as we speak to newer and better technology. Each time, I'm out money to maintain an interest. DCC is evolving rapidly and the stuff that was new in the last RR mag issue is now already obsolete. In a year or less it will all be computerized and controlled from a laptop, I suppose.

DSc may be old-fashioned, but it doesn't change and I will be able to concentrate on the pleasures of the layout instead of constantly trying to keep up with the latest DCC formats.

[Russ Bellinis]

The La Mesa club with the Tehachapi Layout at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum now runs dcc, but a friend of mine was a member before the advent of dcc and I asked him how they ran 100 car trains with midtrain helpers and pushers on dc without having mishaps? I also asked how they could run all of those engines together, or did they need to match performance between engines before they would work together? What he told me then I've never forgotten. He said any model locomotive will run with any other model locomotive if it has enough load behind it. If two locomotives are hooked up to a train, each will pull the maximum that it is capable of pulling, and the other one will pull its maximum. If you have problems with locomotives not working together, it is because you don't have enough load on the train. He said the same thing is true of helper units. Lets say for example that one combination of diesel locos will pull 50 cars up the grades in the layout. Another combination of diesels will push 50 cars up the grades on the layout. If you put the first combination on the front of a 50 car train and the other combination on the rear, neither set is loaded, so you may have problems. On the other hand if you put one set on the front of a 100 car train and the other set on the rear of that 100 car train, the first set will pull the first 50 cars, and the second set will push the last 50 cars. Of course now they run an NCE dcc set up, so they can speed match all of the locomotives in a consist, so it isn't as critical to load fully every locomotive on the layout.

[poliss]

DC does change and it has changed a lot. In the 1960s DC controllers were of mostly the rheostat type, then came solid-state electronics and things changed. Now you have controllers with inertia, simulated breaking, back EMF, PWM and all manner of things. I think the word 'Digital' in DCC frightens many people. Do you still get up from your comfy chair and change channels on the tv with a great big round knob, or do you press a button on the remote? The remote is a digital device.

Yes, technology changes all the time, but I only get something that makes things easier or improves my enjoyment. I have a digital camera because it makes it a doddle to upload pictures to the internet. I don't have a mobile (cell) phone because when I go out I don't want to be bothered with people calling me every 5 seconds. In the 1950s very few of us here in Olde England had a fridge or a washing machine, but we did have DC controlled model locos. Things change. As Yoda would say, "It is the way of thngs".

For those who aren't die hard DCers ( I know you'll never be convinced to go DCC), here's a bit more digital fun. A Model Railroader review of a Roco Digital train set with operating pantographs and opening doors.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qm2NTuQimI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qm2NTuQimI</a><!-- m -->

[Ralph]

For those who aren't die hard DCers ( I know you'll never be convinced to go DCC), here's a bit more digital fun. A Model Railroader review of a Roco Digital train set with operating pantographs and opening doors.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qm2NTuQimI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qm2NTuQimI</a><!-- m -->

What can I say? That is COOL!!!!
Ralph

[rrinker]

See, I have to disagree with the idea that DCC is changing so rapidly that what you buy today is obsolete tomorrow. WHile this is a fairly high-tech bit of equipment, it's not at ALL like computers where the above is true. There is absolutely no reason to be ditching you equipment and buying new stuff every year because it's last year's model. This may have been true of MRC's initial attempts at DCC - poor systems with limited featurs and no upgradeability, when they came out with a new one you had to ditcht he old one and start over again. They FINALLY got it witht heir latest series, you cna buy the basic one and make it as capable as the top of the line without tossing anything. It took them 4 tries to get this right though, pity the people who were early adopters. Luckily, this is NOT and never has been the case with some of the other systems out there. I point primarily to Digitrax as the example here. If you check eBay you will notice even old Digitrax equipment going for full price - because it is all perfectly viable as accessories to a system you just bought yesterday. Of all the products prodced by Digitrax since they started, there is like ONE item that cannot be used on a modern system - and that is a small plug adapter that converted the old pre-Loconet systems to Loconet. Old boosters, old throttles, it all still works today, with no workarounds. Even teh odball Challenger system throttles, which had 4 throttle knobs to control 1 of 4 addresses, in groups of 4 - they are commonly used by peopel who own those Roco cranes, since the whole thing works on multiple addresses, witht he old Challenger throttles you have all 4 ready to go, just twist the appropriate knob. Other brands have also maintained a fairly robust upgrade path with little or no 'waste' . This is why I do not ever recommend the Bachmann EZ Command. It's too limited and a total dead end - you cannot upgrade it, it is what it is. After you play with it for a while and learn what DCC actually CAN do, except the EZ cannot access those features, you are stuck with it.
I am stll using the same base system I purchased 7 years ago. It accesses all the functions of the newest sound decoders. It's never had any sort of upgrade, nor has it needed one. I've added additional equipment, not because I HAD to but because I WANTED to. I started small with a completely upgradeable system, had my plans remained the same and I had built the planned basement empire I was starting on, I would have just added capacity as needed. My plans changed, things changed a LOZT in my life, and it was all stored away for a few years. I am now building a more modest layout but still bigger than my previous one, so I added a few bits to the system to handle it, but the basic system remains the same, there has been no reason to repalce it with somethign newer because someoen came out with a new type of DCC gadget that does not work with it. Nor have I felt compelled to replace the decoders in the locos that I already installed them in with something newer. Other than 2 factory sound equipped locos, I don't do sound, it's ok, lots of fun for a while actually, but then it gets tiring. I'm 2 blocks from the tracks so I hear the real thing frequently - even a Tsunami isn't that good. My road and era require only front and rear lightson locos, no fancy beacons or Mars lights, although the decoders I got 7 years ago handle those features just fine if I needed them. There's little if ny functional difference between decent decoders from a few years ago and the decent ones of today - certainly nothing that would make me tear them out and buy all new ones. Maybe if I still had some of those ones from the first days of DCC - things HAVE improved, but once those improvements made it into general production decoders, they haven't AGAIN made anywhere near that great a change.

--Randy

[Charlie B]

The more sophisticated a system becomes, the more chance there is for a problem. I have DCC, but only because of the sound and other abilities like lights and being able to run more than one train at a time. That being said, I will probably put basic decoders in some of my DC locomotives, and any new ones I get, but no more sound unless it is the only way I can get a unit I want. I have several locomotives that have to be reset constantly, and are going back to be repaired, but it is nice to mute the sound and just let the trains run, even though I don't mind the sound when I'm using it.
Charlie