Bridge at South Wayside

[Gary S]

I agree with you on your point, Tetters. And that is one reason why my layout height is 58 inches AFF! I'm 6'-4" so I still look down on the layout a little bit, but most others will be confronted with close to a ground level view.

As for the model progress, been busy with long hours at work yesterday and today.

Last night, after studying the photos, both model and prototype, I see that the model girder is of the wrong proportions. The model is too tall. Before I started all the bridge projects, I was buying some stuff on-line and found a couple of Micro-Engineering through-girder bridges at a very reasonable price, so I picked them up figuring I would use it for something. I dug it out last night and discovered that its height is almost exactly that of the real bridge. So, I am abandoning the Central Valley bridge in favor of the ME. I did find a bit of time last night to change the length of the ME. This photo shows the modified length CV, the real thing, and the modified length MR girder. The blue squares on the right are the same size and are there to show the relative differences.

   

As I am looking now, I think I will cut the ME girders into multiple sections to get the proper rib spacing too. The stock ME has the ribs way too close together. I can't help but feel that I am going off the deep end here, but it is something I want to do, so there ya go. I'll cut the girders all up and piece them back to better match the real thing.

[ocalicreek]

While I'm usually in favor of a kitbash over a scratchbuild, this time I'd say do the scratchbuild if it means less cutting and pieceing. You've got the skills you need...the only question is the rivets. They aren't hard but they're tedious.

Whaddya think?

Galen

[Russ Bellinis]

If you scratch build, the rivets could be done with Archer rivet decals before you paint.

[Sumpter250]

It's your project.
It's your time.
It's our education........create the "ME" "monster".......but have some fun with it.

[Gary S]

Russ, I've never seen the rivet decals. I'll have to check that out.

Galen, scratchbuilding is the "proper" way to do this, but I just don't have the experience to do the rivets. Would they be done by poking a blunt needle into thin plastic, or with a riveter tool or what?

S-2-fiddy, I done done it! I went ahead and cut and pieced the ME girder together. Turned out pretty good IMO. Still some touch-up to do, a little putty, and some sanding, then lots of paint to cover the flaws! Then do the second girder and all the crosspieces to make a complete assembly. And now I have a left-over 68 foot long CV through girder bridge with no place to put it.

The "monster" is the top one.

   

[nachoman]

Wow. I wouldn't have even bothered modifying the girders. I would have found girders that looked about the right size, captured the correct "feel", and been done with it. Actually, I am still using the girders I cut from Atlas through plate girder bridges I bought cheap many years ago. The only bridge on my layout is made from Atlas girders glued to the sides of the plywood subroadbed. I applaud your commitment to prototype fidelity. BTW, if you ever want to emboss rivets - you almost have to use thin brass rather than plastic. The embossed rivets in the thin plastic easily "melt" when you are trying to glue the thin rivet overlay to your model.

[Gary S]

Kevin, I didn't bother changing the girders on the other two bridges at 69th Street and at Mason Park. But on this one, I want to paint it to match the prototype with the weathering and all, so I need the ribs to be in the correct spots.

Right now, I am sitting here watching the Texans put a whuppin on the Eagles and quarterback Mike. And, working on the second girder:

   

Well, maybe I wouldn't call it a "whuppin" cuz the Eagles just scored a touchdown and went back in front.

[bdw9535]

Gary,

Even though the Eagles tried to give the Texans the game they still managed to earn the win. Here's a couple extra shots of the bridge to help you along. Do you have an approxiate date when in will be completed .

Bruce

[ocalicreek]

Galen, scratchbuilding is the "proper" way to do this, but I just don't have the experience to do the rivets. Would they be done by poking a blunt needle into thin plastic, or with a riveter tool or what?

Yes and yes. I've made rivets by pushing (gently) a blunt tool like a needle into a sheet of plastic laying on a moderately firm cutting mat, so that it gives room for the rivet to take but does not let the tool push through that easily making a hole. This can be used on a large project but I think it's best left for smaller areas. I used it to make a few rivets on a bracket for the Shifter tender lamp.

I've also used a rolling wheel or pounce wheel, as on the Hart Gon project.

I'd LOVE to have a sensipress with riveter table attachment but it's out of my price range at the moment, and most of the projects for which I'd need rivets don't require the kind of precision spacing and consistent size that tool will give you. You get what you pay for (or you learn to make do!)

And Kevin is right, brass rivets will hold up longer than styrene depending on what type of cement you use. I really wasn't thinking scratchbuilding was the ''proper" way to do it, but that it might save you some time in the long run. The right way gets results, is one way to look at it, and you certainly do get some mighty fine results!

Galen

[doctorwayne]

A decent tool for making small amounts of rivets is a divider - one with a screw-type adjustment is best. Simply set the points for the desired spacing and "walk" it along a straightedge.
Experiment with different work surfaces to get the rivet appearance desired: wood of varying hardness (but not with a distinct grain) - balsa works well, as does maple. A cutting mat is another option, as is newspaper piled in different thicknesses, or even a sheet of glass.

While rivets can be impressed on .005" sheet styrene, I generally prefer .010". In either case, to secure it using solvent cement, apply a light but even coat to the back of the rivet strip or sheet, letting it mostly dry while applying a heavier coat to the material to which it will be affixed. Wait a few seconds for any excess to evaporate from the latter piece, then press the two pieces together. The lightly-coated rivet material will be sufficiently "prepped" that it will bond readily to the other sheet, without melting or distorting the rivets.

If you use brass, shimstock under .005" works well. For heavier material, you'll need something sturdier than the dividers.
With either styrene or brass, if you're simply making rivet strips, or a sheet with rivets near its edges, impress the rivets first, then cut to size. If you cut to size first, making the rivet impressions will distort any nearby edges.

Wayne

[P5se Camelback]

... I'd LOVE to have a sensipress with riveter table attachment but it's out of my price range at the moment, and most of the projects for which I'd need rivets don't require the kind of precision spacing and consistent size that tool will give you. You get what you pay for (or you learn to make do!) -- Galen

Keep your eye on EBay ... the "Sensipress" and the "Riveter" show up on EBay from time to time ... I just scored the pair for $71.46 plus $5.95 shipping. I know that's not chicken feed but I live by myself, my income consists of collecting a Social Security check, but I save as much as I can each month to build a "fund" to purchase such items when they appear. I don't always have enough in the LS&W account(especially after a purchase, be it large or small) and I often get outbid when I have to stop bidding because I've hit my dollar limit, but occasionally I win, as I did with the Sensipress/Riveter duo.

I am doing some testing/learning with these two tools in an effort to build up my proficiency level, but when I feel competent in their use, I'm entertaining the idea of fabricating the occasional "riveted reinforcing strip" in styrene for those who are in need. (I'm still only thinking about it.)

After all, I lucked out and scored these tools relatively inexpensively. I've had a highly satisfying, productive, loaded-with-laughter-and-fun career. I've been fortunate enough to have been in the right place at the right time to have been given a couple of "plum projects" that I was able to parlay into big "market winners" and a National Design Award Winner. For that I'm an enormously thankful! :!:

Over the years, building many operating prototypes of new product designs for use in beta test, I've learned many "tricks of the trade" when it comes to fabricating items using styrene. So, in an effort to "give back" to my friends on this forum who have so wholeheartedly accepted this old curmudgeon as a member of the "community" ...

... but I need to learn how to use these tools with some proficiency first!

[Russ Bellinis]

Gary, check out Archer rivet decals here:
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[Gary S]

Even though the Eagles tried to give the Texans the game they still managed to earn the win. Here's a couple extra shots of the bridge to help you along. Do you have an approxiate date when in will be completed

The Eagles defense looked pretty weak. Unfortunately, the Texans' defense looked even weaker!

Now, I'd have to have a bunch more photos than than these. And google earth views, bing bird'e eye, etc. I assume this is for your layout? Does it need to be operational or fixed in the closed position? What are the dimensions of the space where it will go? Any selective compression required? How about we build it together? It does look to be a fun build.

[Gary S]

biL the riveter! That would be cool, if I needed a strip of rivets, you could make them and slap-em in the mail! I vote "yes"!

[Sumpter250]

Wow. I wouldn't have even bothered modifying the girders. I would have found girders that looked about the right size, captured the correct "feel", and been done with it. Actually, I am still using the girders I cut from Atlas through plate girder bridges I bought cheap many years ago. The only bridge on my layout is made from Atlas girders glued to the sides of the plywood subroadbed. I applaud your commitment to prototype fidelity. BTW, if you ever want to emboss rivets - you almost have to use thin brass rather than plastic. The embossed rivets in the thin plastic easily "melt" when you are trying to glue the thin rivet overlay to your model.

Embossed rivets in thin plastic sheet will hold if they are filled from behind with putty, sanded flush with the back of the sheet. ( I'm embarrassed that I can't remember the name of the modeler who used that technique to very great advantage )