gobbleygook DCC
#1
OK, I've been using DCC for about 3 years and I am hoping that some of you know what the heck some of these manuals are talking about.
I can do all the basic settings fine, but some companies are trying to intentional mess with my head, so would some one please tell me how you can get to (just as a for instance) CV 148 bit 0 CV 148 bit 8, etc. some instructions will tell you (for instance) CV 49 data 8 CV 52 data 15 which allows you to set the value (I think) of cv 49, bit 8 to a value of 15, but some folks just assume I know what I'm doing, and I really wish all you knowledgeable folks would jump in and do some tutorials for us.
I'm hoping I'm not the only one that would like to have a better understanding of this, I in terms that a senior can understand. Goldth
I'm not asking on any specific DCC forums, because the guys that know have a rough time explaining. They are way above me.
I think it would be in everyone's best interest to set these instructions so you would know exactly what cv you need to do each function. I don't mind hit or miss if I know approximately what side of the barn to face.
Charlie
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#2
What DCC system are you using?
Justin Miller
Modeling the Lebanon Industrial Railway (LIRY)
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#3
I use the MRC PA.
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#4
I found the answer!!! Cheers

at least for my controller, but they should be similar.

according to my NCE Powercab manual there is a thing called "Binary CV programming".

the instructions are kinda iffy on how to change the bits, but from what I can figure out it should work just like programming a CV value.

the instructions may be different for your controller, but I hope this helps anyways Thumbsup

If you still need help there is a primer on Binary CVs starting at page 23 in the Paragon2 DCC technical manual Here:http://www.broadway-limited.com/support/...Diesel.pdf
Justin Miller
Modeling the Lebanon Industrial Railway (LIRY)
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#5
CV Bit data is using binary. Binary is where a number can be represented by 1's and 0's. This is used for a number of CV settings, such as CV29, CV50 and CV51.

Below is a table that shows the value of each Bit that is on (true). Any bit that is off (false) has a value of 0.

So if bits 1, 5 and 7 are required, just add the True values together and that is the value used in that CV. In this exampe the value is 81.

The maximum value any one CV can have is 255. This is the maximum value of 8 bit binary. Add all the true values together below and, hey presto, there's 255.

Bit ... True ... False
1 . . . . 1 . . . . . 0
2 . . . . 2 . . . . . 0
3 . . . . 4 . . . . . 0
4 . . . . 8 . . . . . 0
5 . . . . 16 . . . . 0
6 . . . . 32 . . . . 0
7 . . . . 64 . . . . 0
8 . . . . 128 . . . 0

Hope this makes some sense.

Angie
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#6
Angie, thanks for the reply, What I am trying to understand is when we are told to adjust a certain variable in a CV change bit number X. I know that they are telling me to change bit X but how is it done. I can't go below the basic CV number with the PA I get only CV X "enter" Data "enter"
Yesterday I was adjusting some sound properties on a locomotive and the instructions were clear. Here is an example of the steps:
CV 49 "enter" Data "0" "enter" CV 52 "Enter" Data (1-15) "enter" which adjusts the volume of a certain function. (The value entered into 49 opened the section of 52 to change the value I believe)
I also understand adding bit values as in CV 29 to make the decoder function with the long address, But on these other CV how do you know what values to add together to get where you want to go.
Charlie
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#7
For reference purpose copied:

Bit ... True ... False
1 . . . . 1 . . . . . 0
2 . . . . 2 . . . . . 0
3 . . . . 4 . . . . . 0
4 . . . . 8 . . . . . 0
5 . . . . 16 . . . . 0
6 . . . . 32 . . . . 0
7 . . . . 64 . . . . 0
8 . . . . 128 . . . 0

That works as follows:

e.g. you read the CV and get a 10 displayed. You know 10 = 8 +2 = Bit 4 and Bit 2 are SET. The Instruction tells you to SET bit 1 also.
Bit 1 = 1 + Bit 2 = 2 + Bit 4 = 8 = Sum 11
You enter 11 and Bit 1 is set too.
Reinhard
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#8
Charlie

I am right there with you. I love my DCC, dont think I could go back, but when it comes to the more advanced features I am at a loss. I think alot of the engineers that write the manuals have a degree in Orwellian Double Speak. The absolute worst part is that I used to write programs and scripts for HP and it shouldnt be this hard.

George
[Image: np_F-1ani.gif][Image: goog.gif]
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#9
Charlie,
To set a CV on a decoder you need to see the decoder manual. It should tell you what the CV does and what numbers to program it to.
There are 8 bits of information in a CV. Several earlier post have shown this. Let me expand a little. Each bit is off or on. Also each bit has a value.
I tried to draw a small sketch for you but I don't know how to attach it to this post. So I will hope this might help
Draw 8 boxes next to each other on a straight line. Starting with the first box on your right put a number starting with 0 over the box and move to your left, the next box will be 1 then 2 until you have them all numbered. These are the bits 0 thought 7. Now each one of these boxes have a value.
The 0 box is 1, the 1 box is 2, the 2 box is 4, the next box is 8 . As you can see each next box is twice the value of the last box.
So if you look at bit 6 the value should be 64. and bit 7 is 128. Now the decoder should inform you on which bit s need to be on to make that CV behave the way you what it to. To turn on bit 1 and bit 6 in a CV you will need to make the number in that CV 66. That will turn on these bits for that CV.
Hope this might help.
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#10
deckroid Wrote:Charlie
I am right there with you. I love my DCC, dont think I could go back, but when it comes to the more advanced features I am at a loss.
George
Same here - I won't even consider going back to DC now, but have yet to master what all can be done with my NCE DCC system. Will say that with the manual that comes with the NCE system and the information included or that can be downloaded from the decoder manufacturers, I have managed to learn how to set some of the simple CV settings. Also must say that more than once, I've had to reset a loco to its default settings and start all over because I messed up something. I do get confused when I have to set CV XX to XXX then CV XX to XXX to something else in order to change something. Guess it will all come in time.
Ed
"Friends don't let friends build Timesavers"
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#11
Ok Charlie B, no problem.

Here's CV29 on my Lenz 0521A decoder. The default value is 6. Means Loco operates DC or DCC and on 128 step speed.

Bit . . .Value . . . . .What it does
1 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . Direction: Normal
1 . . . . . 1 . . . . . . Direction: Reversed
2 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . 14 or 27 Speed Steps
2 . . . . . 2 . . . . . . 28 or 128 Speed Steps
3 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . Loco Operates In DCC Mode Only
3 . . . . . 4 . . . . . . Loco Operates In DCC Or DC Mode
4 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . Always Zero (0)
5 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . Factory Set Speed Table
5 . . . . . 16 . . . . . .Custon Speed Table
6 . . . . . 0 . . . . . . .Use CV1 As Address
6 . . . . . 32 . . . . . . Use CV17 And CV18 As Address
7 . . . . . .0 . . . . . . .Always Zero (0)
8 . . . . . .0 . . . . . . .Always Zero (0)

Scenario: Start with 0
If I want the direction of the loco reversed, add 1
If I want 128 speed steps, add 2
If I want loco only operating in DCC mode, add 0
If I want the factory set speed table, add 0
If I want 4 digit loco address add 32

This gives the number to be set in CV29 (35). Now just use your control station to program that particular CV to the correct value.

All these CV settings are (should be) on the instructions that came with your decoder. If you haven't got them, most decoder manufacturer websites carry pdf downloads of their own brand.

Angie
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#12
Or go here: http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm and check off the boxes for the feature you want and it will tell you what value to put in CV29. It also has a sectio to calculate CV17 and CV18 for you, which isn;t really necessary for most DCC systems - although it can come in handy programming stubborn sound decoders.

I am convinved people make this out to be harder than it really is. If I say to write down one thousand, nine hundred and fifty six, you write 1956 (I hope!). Setting 'bits' is the exact same thing, only instead of 0-9 you only have to deal with 0 and 1. Use the scientific mode of the calculator in Windows and you cna enter the binary and press one button and it tells you the decimal number. FOr simple on/off things it makes a heck of a lot more sense than to have 8 individual CVs that can only be 1 or 0. There are only a limited number of CVs in the NMRA specifications.

For those with Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, CVP (ok, pretty much everyone EXCEPT MRC), look into getting the computer interface for your system and the free JMRI program. You won;t have to know ANY of this stuff - what a flashing becon? Just check the check box that syas beacon and JMRI will handle whatever CVs need to be set for the decoder you are using. MRC has their own proprietary software that does some of this but it's highly lacking compared to JMRI. Can;t use JMRI with MRC because MRC does not want to participate.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#13
OK, it is starting to make some sense. Stand by to give us more lessons. Thanks for the information on CV 29, although there is a good program available from BLI that will calculate 17, 18 and 29 for the long address, and I did have a diagram for CV29 somewhere. You have been very helpful but please stand by Goldth I was afraid to ask for help being thought stupid, but you are only stupid if you don't ask
Charlie
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#14
George: if I go back one step, do you have a controller/programmer that will read the CVs on the decoder? It's really best to start with the current value so that you can change only the bits you should. (and write it down so that you can go back again.) Some of them may let you attack individual bits.
Are you young enough to have taken binary and octal/hexadecimal in school?
"it's so simple, so very simple, that only a child can do it." Tom Lehrer on New Math
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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#15
Charlie B Wrote:....Stand by to give us more lessons. Thanks for the information on CV 29, although there is a good program available from BLI that will calculate 17, 18 and 29 for the long address, and I did have a diagram for CV29 somewhere.
No problem. Software is all well and good until you don't have access to a computer, then understanding it is necessary. It's actually really easy once you know how, and, as a programmer, I know there are many who learn slower. Any questions, just ask.

Charlie B Wrote:....but you are only stupid if you don't ask
Exactly Big Grin

FYI the attached image is an excel spreadsheet to show how you can draw the boxes that Randy mentioned previously to work it out. Simply highlight what bits you want under CV29 and add their Bit Values and that's the CV data to enter. Of course, the descriptive comments may be different for different decoders.

Angie


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