No One Remembers

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I sometimes think people have forgotten that we have not forgotten.

While I knew it was the 70th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor, its not like it didn't get mentioned on the news or radio. Even so, what more can be said about it? Someone please define "remember". I suspect more remember than you know.

Every December 7th its the same thread here.

Heck, Nobody is crying out "Remember the Maine!" every February 15 (and be honest, how many of you knew that date?). One could argue that the Spanish American War set the stage for the Pacific half of World war II. By conquering Spanish held islands in the Southeast Pacific, the US would have a strong hold near Asia. At the time, Teddy Roosevelt encouraged Japan to be more imperialistic, with the hopes that the US could trade freely anywhere Japan conquered.

[Sumpter250]

One could argue that the Spanish American War set the stage for the Pacific half of World war II. By conquering Spanish held islands in the Southeast Pacific, the US would have a strong hold near Asia. At the time, Teddy Roosevelt encouraged Japan to be more imperialistic, with the hopes that the US could trade freely anywhere Japan conquered.

I strongly suspect that the above statement wasn't learned in a public school. It's been an age since I last heard reference to it, and it's not the only time leaders of that era, thought in those terms.
We, as Americans, have a lot to be proud of, but there are still..... "skeletons in our closet".

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I strongly suspect that the above statement wasn't learned in a public school. It's been an age since I last heard reference to it, and it's not the only time leaders of that era, thought in those terms.
We, as Americans, have a lot to be proud of, but there are still..... "skeletons in our closet".

You are correct sir, but to be fair, some of the docuements and materials relevant to that part of history have only recently been "discovered". That said, no one was too keen on digging it up until recently either. I've been reading the book "The Imperial Cruise" by James Bradley (Same author as Flags of Our Fathers, which was made into a movie a few years ago).

Apparently, Theodore Roosevelt very much liked the Japanese compared to other Asian cultures since he thought they could be brought up to nearly "Western" standards. There are quite a few political cartoons that show Japanese in "Civilized" clothing (top hats, coats and the like), compared to China and Korea, who have their "savage" traditional clothes.

Teddy Roosevelt gets painted with a MUCH rosier picture in history classes than he really deserves. People focus on his "Live Vigorously" or "Rough Rider" or "speak softly with a big stick" or "preservationist" areas. It may surprise many that alot of the land Roosevelt "preserved" was not for nature, but to prevent mindless destruction of resources until they could be properly extracted. Very few places did he intend to remain wilderness.

It is interesting to me how a lot of that time period of US history gets glossed over.

Somewhat relevant to the conversation, the big White cruiser behind me is the USS Olympia, the Flagship of the Pacific fleet in the Spanish American war. This ship was at the tip of the spear when the US was looking to the Far East. Its a shame that this ship is probably doomed. The musuem who owns her has run out of money, and she needs to be drydocked and repaired (a million dollar operation). She hasn't been out of the water in 60 years, and the Delaware River around her would need to be dredged to get her out. Several groups are vying for her, Some want her to stay in Philadelphia, Others in Washington DC, South Carolina, and even San Francisco (I'd like to see them tow that ship out there!). If it were not for her double hull, water would have penetrated and sunk the ship already. At low tide, water pours out of rusted out pockets.

To think she was once the abosolute height of Naval warship technology! Now she is the last of the "Great White Fleet" and nearly forgotten.

[Brakie]

Guys,Let's look a little deeper into this "surprise" attack..

It always takes two to tango

Japan seen our Pacific fleet moved from San Francisco to the Hawaiian Islands,seen reinforcements sent to the Philippians,Midway and Wake..All of this could be seen as aggressive moves toward war.Then the embargoing of raw material to Japan because of Japan's invasion of Asia..Japan joins the Axis powers.Britain starts reinforcing its Pacific territories..

There is no longer any doubts...War in the Pacific was inevitable..

Even the peace talks was questionable-both sides was playing head games-questions,counter question while Japan was secretly training to attack Pearl we was slowly preparing for war...

Oddly the thought of the day by the majority of the General staff was Pearl could not be attack by air-it was to shallow for torpedoes dropped from a plane..

So,we see the "war clock" was ticking long before December 7th,1941.

[radivil]

One of the overlooked bits is why exactly the carriers weren't in port that day.

Some conspiratorial minded people will claim they were intentionally moved out of harm's way. But they were busy ferrying aircraft to Midway to form a fighter screen and patrol for any incoming attack. It was obvious the Japanese were going to make a move. Better to intercept them out past Midway if you could than have to fight them in the way that actually happened.