How to Learn "Railroad Speak"?

[Gary S]

Anyone have links or info on how I can learn more about the language that real railroaders use? As an operations oriented layout owner, I want to add a more "railroady" atmosphere.

Here's an example.... operating session, me being dispatcher, it is 09:15, I want to inform the local AT&G crew that there is an inbound BNSF through train arriving in our territory at 09:30 so they can clear the main. Here is what I say...

"uh, crew 1, there is an inbound BNSF freight due to arrive in Pearland Yard at 09:30, will be at Almeda Industrial Park around 09:40, you need to get out of his way."

How do I make that sound more authentic? And more to the point, where can I learn more of the proper talk? Any internet links out there? Books or reading material? Maybe a scanner and go listen to the real railroads?

[nachoman]

Maybe a scanner and go listen to the real railroads?

Yep. Or, get a friend that works for a railroad. Or, get some "foamer" friends . What foamers tell you may or may not be accurate, but they will sure enjoy telling you .

[faraway]

I listen frequently to railroad radio on the net http://tunein.com/radio/Rail-g2742/. They do not speak any kind of the English language at all. Sounds like the US railroads are under control of aliens

[FCIN]

Anyone have links or info on how I can learn more about the language that real railroaders use? As an operations oriented layout owner, I want to add a more "railroady" atmosphere.

Can't say that I've ever run across such a web site other than ones that might have definitions of some commonly used terms. But you must remember that some terminology used on different railroads and in different parts of the country may be different.

Here's an example.... operating session, me being dispatcher, it is 09:15, I want to inform the local AT&G crew that there is an inbound BNSF through train arriving in our territory at 09:30 so they can clear the main. Here is what I say...

"uh, crew 1, there is an inbound BNSF freight due to arrive in Pearland Yard at 09:30, will be at Almeda Industrial Park around 09:40, you need to get out of his way."

How do I make that sound more authentic? And more to the point, where can I learn more of the proper talk? Any internet links out there? Books or reading material? Maybe a scanner and go listen to the real railroads?

Simple example:
You: "XYZ Dispatcher (your location) to (Train or Engine) NNN (train or engine number of crew 1). Over"
Crew: "XYZ (Train or Engine) NNN answering dispatcher Over"
You: "BNSF should be arriving Pearland around 09:30. Need for you to Clear up. Over"
Crew: "Understand we need to Clear up for BNSF - will advise when we're in the clear. Over"
You: "XYZ Dispatcher Out"
Crew: "XYZ NNN Out"
Once the crew has cleared the Main track and locked up all switches (and only then) they must call the dispatcher.
Crew: "XYZ NNN calling the Dispatcher (location) Over"
You: "XYZ Dispatcher (location) answering NNN Over"
Crew: "XYZ NNN is in the Clear at (location) Over"
You: "XYZ NNN in the Clear at (location) HH:MM Over"
Crew should repeat the time given by the dispatcher... Then as before...
You: "XYZ Dispatcher Out"
Crew: XYZ NNN Out"

Main Thing: Keep all radio transmissions as brief as possible while still getting out the important information and always be sure that you're talking to the right people and everyone involved has a clear understanding of what is to be done. Over the years, there have been some serious accidents in the industry when a dispatcher or operator thought they were talking to one train and it was actually another one!

In all likelihood, if your crew is working on a main track where through freights run, you'd have given them a Track Warrant or Work Authority with specific time and limits to occupy the main at that location and they must report clear of those limits on or before the specified time.

Get a scanner if you don't already have one or as Reinhard suggested listen in on an Internet radio site, and listen to how it's done on the railroad you're modeling. If possible, get hold of a rule book for that specific railroad and also a Timetable/Special instructions so you'll be familiar with their required radio rules and other instructions that might be in effect.

As I said, the jargon and some other terminology will vary from railroad to railroad, but in all instances, any instructions between the dispatcher/yardmaster/train director/whoever and anyone using the main track must be repeated to insure everyone has the proper understanding of what is to be done.

Should mention that the "unauthorized chatter" that you'll often hear on the radio, especially between the train crews, can be a riot!

[MasonJar]

Main Thing: Keep all radio transmissions as brief as possible while still getting out the important information and always be sure that you're talking to the right people and everyone involved has a clear understanding of what is to be done. Over the years, there have been some serious accidents in the industry when a dispatcher or operator thought they were talking to one train and it was actually another one!

In all likelihood, if your crew is working on a main track where through freights run, you'd have given them a Track Warrant or Work Authority with specific time and limits to occupy the main at that location and they must report clear of those limits on or before the specified time.

This is pretty much how we use dispatching at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hotrak.ca">www.hotrak.ca</a><!-- w -->. Brief message, conveying essential information like location, destination, other nearby trains. We are given "virtual" track warrants for certain parts of the layouts, and we have a yard master who is the god of the yard.

Typical exchange:

Crew: Dispatch 75 (train #75 calling dispatcher)
Dispatch: 75 (acknowledgement)
C: Approaching Hawthorne (limit of previous clearance, also gives location)
D: Very well (acknowledgement) Cleared to Danforth (clearance now amended to further on the layout). Protect against #34 (watch out for train 34 who is ahead of you)
C: Danforth. Watch for 34. (Repeating instructions) Thank you. (indicating end of transmission)

The dispatcher may also call the train with specific instructions like switching tracks to avoid a train working at a certain spot, coordinate a pass on a stretch of single main, or holding a train. Unless the crew hears otherwise, they must stop at the limit of their clearance and report to the dispatcher.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[Gary S]

Very good guys, that's what I am looking for. Thanks for the examples of "the speak" and for the ideas and links.

Ed, you also gave me a good idea for my switchlist/instructions document for each of the local trains. I can put specific instructions on when they need to have the main clear. That would be like a track warrant or work authorization?

On the other hand, where the local train actually is would depend on how efficiently they have been making their moves, so giving them instructions for a specific location ahead of time may not work in conjunction with the through trains. Probably needs to be handled in "real time".

Brings up another question, on a shortline like mine, with moderate through traffic, would the local crews need to get "real time" permission from the dispatcher to block the main during their moves?

For background, the Almeda Terminal and Gulf is a shortline owned by the BNSF. It is operationally similar to the LAJ. The reason there are "through trains" is because of the connection to Seabrook. The BNSF runs freights over the ATG trackage to get there. Also, the UP brings cuts of cars all the way to Dixie Yard. So, we have BNSF through trains going and coming to Seabrook, and we have occasional UP trains on the ATG trackage going to Dixie Yard.

Any discussion is welcomed!

The diagram doesn't reflect all trackage, it just shows the overall idea:





Here is a rough "flow" diagram of the ATG just to show the conceptual aspects.

[BR60103]

Gary: Train orders and such have been covered in recent issues of Trains and Model Railroader.
IIRC, you're modelling a short line connecting 2 major roads, so you probably don't have a fixed timetable. But, if the BNSF is scheduled to come through the same time each day, this will be covered -- the crew knows that they have to be clear by 1330 unless told otherwise.

Most of the radio talk I heard on the commuter run was talking to work crews who had possession of the tracks. The daily orders would have had an item saying that the work crew were in control (forget how it's phrased) of the track with a red flag at mile post 29.3 and trains should call foreman Mucklewame for clearance. The conversation went :
"GO 525 to Foreman Mucklewame." (repeat until
"This is Foreman Mucklewame."
"We are approaching your red flag at milepost 29.3. What are your orders?"
Usually by the afternoon rush hour the job would be cleared up.
"GO 525, you are clear to pass my red flag at limited speed."
You might get:
"GO 525, stop at my red flag and wait for more orders."

[BR60103]

I don't know if this would apply to you.
GO Transit is a tenant on the CN and and CP lines. We rode a CN line into Toronto, but they crossed a CP line at West Toronto. CP was the latecomer at the junction so they had to provide and control the signalling at the junction.
One morning we got to the junction and the block was red. GO has its own control office. Somehow, our crew couldn't get through GO control and CN dispatcher to the CP dispatcher. Our conductor eventually had to walk down the street to a pay phone to call the CP dispatcher directly.

[railohio]

What you didn't say is what era you're modeling. Train orders were usually issued by a trackside operator and are associated with timetable superiority of trains; the use of track warrants is largely used in the era of centralized dispatchers talking directly to trains in a non-scheduled environment.

Your own railroad will have its own protocol for radio use. To establish the locale of the railroad you should mimic the style of connecting railroads when their crews/dispatcher show up in your operations (and that is what you seem to want to do here).

Listen to BNSF operations on your own scanner or an Internet feed. Find a company rule book at a swap meet. Talk to railroaders that work in the area. Research is the key.

[Gary S]

Oops, era is 2000+, radio communications.

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone. The thoughts and ideas will help me make good decisions for the operating scheme. Now I need to check out the local radio traffic!

[Brakie]

uh, crew 1, there is an inbound BNSF freight due to arrive in Pearland Yard at 09:30, will be at Almeda Industrial Park around 09:40, you need to get out of his way."
-----------------------------------------------
Pearland district dispatcher to WLO (crew 1)

WLO answering Pearland Dispatcher.

Dispatcher: WLO,You'll need to clear for BNSF BFPY Eng 5677 and he should arrive Almeda around 9:30 AM..After BFPY passes..Give me a call for clearance.

WLO :Roger Dispatcher..Clear for BNSF BFPY Eng 5677 due around 9:30 AM.After he clears give you a call.

Pearland Dispatcher: That is correct Dispatcher Out.

WLO Out.

[dave1905]

Since you are modeling the BNSF, that means you are in the modern era, so it will be track warrants instead of train orders.

Track warrants are point to point authorities issued verbally (over the radio) from the dispatcher to the train crews. The train crews fill out a standard form with the information and authority the dispatcher gives them.

Dispatcher:
Track warrant no 1245 to BNSF 5725 at Pearland.
Check box 2 proceed from Pearland to West yard limits Dixie yard on main track.
Check box 7 this is not in effect until the arrival of BNSF 9022 at Pearland.
Over
Train Crew:
Track warrant no 1245 to BNSF 5725 at Pearland.
Check box 2 proceed from Pearland to West yard limits Dixie yard on main track.
Check box 7 this is not in effect until the arrival of BNSF 9022 at Pearland.
Two boxes checked 2 and 7
Over
Dispatcher:
That is correct
Track warrant 1245 is OK 0840 DEH
Over
Train Crew:
Track warrant 1245 is OK 0840 DEH
Out

If you search for "track warrants" or "GCOR" (General Code of Operating Rules) you can find out more information.

Since your railroad probably isn't signalled, only one train can occupy a given set of limits (unless its a joint authority)

[SRY]

Gary,

here is a link to the General Code of Operating Rules which are adopted by the BNSF:
http://railtown.team.parks.ca.gov/volunt...4-7-10.pdf
In chapter 2 you find the Railroad Radio Rules and in chapter 14 you find Track Warrant Control.

[Gary S]

SRY, I'll be looking at the link you posted tonight. Appreciate you finding it for me. Good stuff!

Brakie, Dave, thanks for the examples. I've been running various scenarios through my head and using "railroad speak" like you guys have shown in this thread. Have another ops session tomorrow, so will try to "tighten" up my communications with the crews, will try to be a bit more "railroady" as the dispatcher.

One of my problems is that I lose sight of my role because I am too busy enjoying myself watching everyone else having fun running the trains. Then I forget to warn the crews of an incoming through train. Still, the crews have done a good job of coordinating on there on, and even though it may not be prototypical, it may be part of the fun the crews. We'll see how things go tomorrow.

[BR60103]

Gary:
If you foul up your job like that, you get demoted or lose your seniority and go back to being brakeman on the yard shift or hostler in the enginehouse.