Shaygetz's 2013 Orphan Challenge...

[shaygetz]

Been awhile since I've been around here, so I figure this is a good a way to get back in as any. My challenge is this Keyser Model Kits P.O./P.O. Tours 4-6-0 locomotive in HO scale…





Purchased from an online friend in the UK (his pix, I'll post my own tomorrow), near as I can figure it was a short lived series of kits put out in the 80s, making it almost 30 years old...there's just not a lot of information out there on them. All diecast metal, this one was already started when he got it and was passed on to me. It's been painted...with a brush...in a color I hope to find a match for...in the hopes that... All. Those. Little. Screws. Are. Still. There.

[BR60103]

K's kits have a certain reputation, shall we say, in the UK modelling community.
I assembled my first few in the 60s, but I have a couple still in boxes. You might look at the thread on RMWeb.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72584-ks-white-metal-kits/">http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... etal-kits/</a><!-- m -->

The nuts and bolts are almost certainly BA (Whitworth) sizes. I have a small collection (somewhere in the unpacked bits) and our club will have sources, if you should lose any.
They are not compatible with either US sizes (NC nor NF) or metric.
I think the French series was one of their later productions.

[teejay]

I guess the message here is " don't lose your nuts ! " ....interesting loco !

T

[nachoman]

Interesting - looks like there may be two motors in this kit... (?)

[Tyson Rayles]

What does the P.O./P.O. stand for?

[ezdays]

Wow, that is a challenge. Good to have you back, and good luck with this...

[ray_m]

Interesting project.
I have some Engish OO parts around here somewhere .
If I have any of the parts you need, I'll donate them.

[Schraddel]

Shaygetz,
a adwise from me according to K's loco kits. I have seen the pre owner has replaced the original motor with an Mabuchi 030-Type.
The biggest bugbear with K's drive is the worm wheel. This has always an eccentric bore and for this reason a very bad and also variing gear mesh. Models equipped with this original worm gear will run eccentric also. If this white spoked original worm gear is still fitted, the best way is to replace it with an suitable module 0.4 gear.

P.O.:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_du_chemin_de_fer_de_Paris_%C3%A0_Orl%C3%A9ans">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_ ... l%C3%A9ans</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:230-G-352_nov_1981.jpg">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... v_1981.jpg</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/230_PO_4201_%C3%A0_4370">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/230_PO_4201_%C3%A0_4370</a><!-- m --> sorry in French only, but it may helpful.

I hope your model will run at the end of the challenge like the protype:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x850yl8nqfk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x850yl8nqfk</a><!-- m -->

[shaygetz]

Thanks for all the information guys...I'm not quite as intimidated now Shame it has such a bad rap, it really is nice looking. The motors include an aftermarket one and the original...neither of which impresses me. I've seen larger flywheels on Z scale motors, this one is about 3/8" x 1/4"--AND tapered. I've seen more muscular buzzers in TYCO slot cars A remotor is in order but I'll have to weigh my options, most likely a tender mounted affair of some sort--with a beefier flywheel. My personal preference on older models is to use what's provided and tweak it to optimal performance...we'll see.

[e-paw]

That is one tinny fly wheel.

[shaygetz]

Yep...never seen one that small--can you believe the magnets on the stock motor are rubber, like you find in children's magnetic letter sets? Pulling apart the axles required me to make a new screwdriver as the drivers are mounted with a semi-castled nut...



...and the first very major snag is hit. The frame was glued together by the original builder, making it nearly impossible to pull apart without risking great damage. The frame is easily...and I mean easily bent. Because the motor actually is saddled over the axle, I can't install it or do a remotor with a gearbox. All in all a very discouraging start...





Rubber magnets....RUBBER MAGNETS....

[BR60103]

Shaygetz:
I think I have a driver for that nut. (looks just like the one you made) Does the axle have the square ends? That was a great device for keeping the drivers properly quartered. I think I sold my hoard of drivers.

[ray_m]

Because the motor actually is saddled over the axle, I can't install it or do a remotor with a gearbox. All in all a very discouraging start...

If you don't want to use the old gear, I would just cut it off to remove the axle. On the other hand, if you plan to save the gear, making a cap to shield the end of the axle and using a gear puller might be the best bet.
I had removed the gear from an old Varney economy pacific frame (sort of similar design) by placing shims between the gear and side of the frame then pressed the axle through using a drill press as a press.
I wonder if a motor from an N scale locomotive and the right gear ratio would work? :?:

[Schraddel]

Shaygetz!

Original K's drive train and wheels look like so:

The motor runs rough (fast, faster and still faster) and has much too low power output. In addition with the eccentric worm gear and you have a fine shelf queen. The K's wheel rims are bare steel, the sort of steel who tends to rust.
The original K's axles are D-shaped on their ends and fit into the also D-shaped bores on the wheel centers. The whole is fixed then by slotted screws going into tapered bores on the axles ends.
K's frames are usually bolted together by spacers.

What you have shown in the photo with the special nuts, looks like Romford axles which have indeed the square axle ends. May be the pre owner have replaced the original axles with Romford ones.

A suggestion: Why not fit a NWSL gearbox onto the first pair of drivers? This will create more space for a bigger motor and flywheel.

My 2 cent.

Lutz

[Tyson Rayles]

So no one knows what the P.O./P.O. stands for?