Posing A Question About THe Hobby
#1
Starting on page 52 of the Feb '09 Model Railroader is a presentation of a layout titled Steaming Through The Winter Wonderland. It is a nice layout, but it wasn't built by the owner; it was commissioned from Raildreams, Inc., a commercial firm.

My feelings are that this isn't a proper display of a layout made by an owner or club, but essentially amounts to advertising for the company that did all the work. From a modeler's viewpoint, I'm uncomfortable with the way this was presented, but maybe I'm too much of a purist.

I'm interested in the opinions of other members.
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#2
I dont remember seeing this article, but thats prolly due to the fact that i havnt gone through and read it yet, just browsed over it quickly when i got it lol

Ill agree with you partly MM on this one. Being that it is not the modelers own work and modeling, it does seem as if this is just a way for the company that built it to get more advertising in hopes more people will see the layout and think about hiring them for the same. Im kinda half and half on this one. On the other half, i think maybe the owner of the layout just thought it was a great layout and wanted to share it with others. ill have to read the article when i find the mag lol, it should be around here somewhere 35
Josh Mader

Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
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#3
Hi Mountainman
I am only replying so you know I'm not ignoring this.
I don't read MR and don't know how it was presented, however, this is probably akin to why I don't read MR anymore.
There are so many great modelers out there (many of them frequent this forum) that would never get a sentence in MR. When I read it years ago it almost seemed that there were a few modelers on the staff and it was the same layouts over and over, even the ads were practically the same.
My opinion would be to feature the individual modelers. Any one with money can buy a pike. That is not building one.
I think it is the same as some TV shows where people build a house by hiring contractors, then they say "Look at the house I built".
My brothers built 28 houses and I helped on 4 of them. No contractors involved.
Charlie
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#4
When they re-did the layout at Chicago's Transportation Museum, they did the same thing. Interesting on how they built all the tall buildings, did the scenery, but it wasn't more than a five page advertisement for the company that did the work. Granted, if the project was commissioned to a true model railroader, they would probably still be working on it today. You know how we are..everything has to be perfect. But that layout was for public display.

NOW.....If it were me, and I had hired a company to build my layout, with the only input from me is, "Put that over there....I want this here....NO...No.....Over there.", how could I proudly show others and call it my own. I'd rather take the money spent on hiring someone to do it for me, and do it myself.

But, if I had physical limitations, such as being wheel chair bound, paralyzed, or some other debilitating limitaion, (and had really deep pockets), but still enjoyed running trains, it might be the only way I could enjoy the hobby.
Torrington, Ct.
NARA Member #87
I went to my Happy Place, but it was closed for renovations.
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#5
Im a bit confused after reading the article. The Article is written by Dave Rickaby but the entire article talks about Bill Nelson. Who is Dave Rickaby? Does he work for the company that made his layout? On page 55 at the end of the article it says that Dave Rickaby is a regular contributor to MR.... Im confused lol
Josh Mader

Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
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#6
Charlie B Wrote:Hi Mountainman
I am only replying so you know I'm not ignoring this.
I don't read MR and don't know how it was presented, however, this is probably akin to why I don't read MR anymore.
There are so many great modelers out there (many of them frequent this forum) that would never get a sentence in MR. When I read it years ago it almost seemed that there were a few modelers on the staff and it was the same layouts over and over, even the ads were practically the same.
My opinion would be to feature the individual modelers. Any one with money can buy a pike. That is not building one.
I think it is the same as some TV shows where people build a house by hiring contractors, then they say "Look at the house I built".
My brothers built 28 houses and I helped on 4 of them. No contractors involved.
Charlie

That's pretty much how I feel, too.
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#7
I haven't seen the issue but if the layout is constructed by a professional builder then it does sound more like an advertisement for that company than a presentation of modeler's work. As Charlie pointed out there are so many modeler's out there (so many right here!) whose work would inspire MR's readers that it does seem odd to showcase a pro company's work instead.

Ralph
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#8
I haven't really looked into that article (I just barely leafed through the mag...), but I've often thought that at this stage of my life, my modeling years get to be less & less. So, if I had the $$'s, I would probably commission a "professionaly" built layout, but with the following conditions....It would have to be built in my home, and I would need to be involved in the planning and building of it. I really enjoy the building aspect of the hobby, and although it can be a pain in the cheeks, it is still very satisfactory to step back and say.."Yeah...I built that..." Cheers
Gus (LC&P).
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#9
MountainMan Wrote:
Charlie B Wrote:Hi Mountainman
I am only replying so you know I'm not ignoring this.
I don't read MR and don't know how it was presented, however, this is probably akin to why I don't read MR anymore.
There are so many great modelers out there (many of them frequent this forum) that would never get a sentence in MR. When I read it years ago it almost seemed that there were a few modelers on the staff and it was the same layouts over and over, even the ads were practically the same.
My opinion would be to feature the individual modelers. Any one with money can buy a pike. That is not building one.
I think it is the same as some TV shows where people build a house by hiring contractors, then they say "Look at the house I built".
My brothers built 28 houses and I helped on 4 of them. No contractors involved.
Charlie

That's pretty much how I feel, too.

Although I haven't seen the article, I feel the same way, too. Good for the owner, who obviously got what he wanted, and good for the builder, who not only got paid for his work but also got lots of free advertising. However, not so good for the hobby and for those in the hobby attempting to accomplish the same ends but with more limited means. Is one's layout fated to never be featured in MR simply because it wasn't professionally-built? What hope for recognition in MR for anyone toiling alone trying to make a decent layout, and what kind of inspiration does it provide for a non-professional layout builder, other than maybe as an example of so-called perfection? The layouts that inspire me are those in which the owner's passion is reflected in his words and pictures. The imperfections and unfinished areas only lend encouragement to those of us who have layouts with similar imperfections and unfinished areas, and hope that, perhaps, our layout could be worthy of a feature article, too.

Wayne
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#10
Among the many other "quirks" (to put it nicely..) of MR, I really got a laugh from an article published a few months back titled something like "Building a Terminal Facility in a Limited Space"...The "limited space" was something like 20' x 40'. Eek
Boy..!!! I bet 99% of us wish we had those kind of limitations..!!!! It's this kind of mega-layouts featured in MR, plus the crass comercialism, that have put people off on the mag....Me among them.
Gus (LC&P).
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#11
Odd. I thought I replied on this thread. maybe I forgot to hit submit...
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#12
eightyeightfan1 Wrote:When they re-did the layout at Chicago's Transportation Museum, they did the same thing. Interesting on how they built all the tall buildings, did the scenery, but it wasn't more than a five page advertisement for the company that did the work. Granted, if the project was commissioned to a true model railroader, they would probably still be working on it today. You know how we are..everything has to be perfect. But that layout was for public display.

NOW.....If it were me, and I had hired a company to build my layout, with the only input from me is, "Put that over there....I want this here....NO...No.....Over there.", how could I proudly show others and call it my own. I'd rather take the money spent on hiring someone to do it for me, and do it myself.

But, if I had physical limitations, such as being wheel chair bound, paralyzed, or some other debilitating limitaion, (and had really deep pockets), but still enjoyed running trains, it might be the only way I could enjoy the hobby.

**************************************************************************************************************************************************

In that case, it seems to me that a simple disclaimer statement in the article would set the record straight.

As it stands, a person who didn't even know what a model train layout was could hire someone to build an award winning layout and get it featured in one of the hobby magazines.

I don't think that is what modeling is all about, personally.
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#13
Steamtrains Wrote:Among the many other "quirks" (to put it nicely..) of MR, I really got a laugh from an article published a few months back titled something like "Building a Terminal Facility in a Limited Space"...The "limited space" was something like 20' x 40'. Eek
Boy..!!! I bet 99% of us wish we had those kind of limitations..!!!! It's this kind of mega-layouts featured in MR, plus the crass comercialism, that have put people off on the mag....Me among them.
***************************************************************************************************************************************************

That is another whole issue for me - the "limited space" mega-layout. Nope
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#14
Well part of me agrees that there's alot to be said about a layout or kit that was bought from a builder. There's nothing like getting knee deep into layout building or structure building , then again I purchased a few of my builds from someone but my layout is all me as well as a bunch of other stuff I 've built. I like the quote The "limited space" was something like 20' x 40'... that is funney I only dream about a space that big . Ya I think your being too much of a purist. Icon_lol
Lynn

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Great White North
Ontario,Canada
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#15
MountainMan Wrote:Starting on page 52 of the Feb '09 Model Railroader is a presentation of a layout titled Steaming Through The Winter Wonderland. It is a nice layout, but it wasn't built by the owner; it was commissioned from Raildreams, Inc., a commercial firm.

My feelings are that this isn't a proper display of a layout made by an owner or club, but essentially amounts to advertising for the company that did all the work. From a modeler's viewpoint, I'm uncomfortable with the way this was presented, but maybe I'm too much of a purist.

I'm interested in the opinions of other members.

There was a long and very heated debate about this very subject in the trains.com forums of Model Railroader a while back, after MR presented another layout that had been custom built (an engine terminal layout). For reasons entirely understandable, some model railroading enthusiasts resents in effect being labeled "not real modelers" by other model railroading enthusiasts.

It is a big hobby. Some people do everything themselves, from track planning, via prepping the room, backdrop painting, benchwork, track laying, wiring, landscaping, scratchbuilt engines and rolling stock, signalling, scratchbuilt structures, painting and weathering, setting up some kind of operating scheme (if applicable) and so on and so forth, while others get help with one or more aspects of the planning, construction or running of their model railroad.

My opinions on custom designed or custom built layouts in Model Railroader Magazine ?
1) I can learn something about how to do things on my own layout from seeing how others do things on other layouts.
2) I don't really care who that did the thing I admire and want to emulate.
3) It is none of my business whether someone else did their own e.g backdrops, benchwork, wiring, engine painting or whatever on their layout.

Your mileage may vary Goldth

Smile,
Stein
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