Sweet sound
#16
Well the problem with the ESU decoders (both with and without sound) is the humming sound at low speed. That sound will not be noticed at meetings, exhibitions and operating sessions with several peoples. You will notice it switching directly in front of you on a small ISL in a very silent environment (e.g. layout room at night).

Tsunami can do a smooth start if you
1. Set CV 66 and 95 to values below 50
2. Set CV 209 to 50 - 100
3. Set CV 210 to 5 -10
4. Set custom speed table in CV 25 and 29
5. Start the speed table CV 67 - 95 with 1,2,3... increase the steps to 3, 4, 5, 10 and finally 20. The end value should be around 175.

My preferred table is:
1 2 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 37 41 45 49 53 57 62 67 77 87 107 127 137 157 177
Reinhard
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#17
Hello,

thanks for the numbers, I will get a try.

The humming sound at low speed belongs to the setting.
The motor control setting "adaptive" control should be set to "off". CV124.4
The setting reduces the PWM frequency at low speed for better control, like our ICE train. This results in noise at low speed.
I always switch it off. My machines are from Athearn, Atlas and Intermountain and no loko needs this switched on. Maybe with other DC-Motors it makes sence.
...
Greetings Hardy
...
GULF MOBILE & OHIO and FRISCO and also ILLINOIS CENTRAL (Gulf)
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#18
faraway Wrote:Lutz, what is your alternative? I love the motor handling of Zimo but their US sound library looks very patchy to me.
Looks like Tsunami is under constant development. A new cost optimized version and later on Tsunami 2.
Reinhard i agree, the electronic motor control of Zimo is excellent. :geek:
But the selection of typical US soundfiles is (still?) very limited. And you have to use their own programmer for adjusting sound, a theme more situated for :ugeek: As i am not an geek, i have my struggle to get the sound on Zimo decoders right. May be i am spoiled by the Tsunamis sound decoders were the adjusting of sound functions and sound devices is rather simple for the user. E.g. getting rid of a coal shoveling fireman is simply modifying one, well documented, CV. A job which can be done by the user with the aid of his DCC command station.
Not so with Zimo sound and not so with Esu loksound. You have to dig deep into the wav files to do adjustings here. The Zimo ZCS is a little bit overaged and has not the convenience as i exspected, more a device for :geek: . Of course the F fuctions are listed, but no text beside the numbers to show what is what.

The Esu Lokprogrammer has malices of it's own; it is really so Hardy, even if you won't believe that. A friend of mine owns one and he was not possible to reduce simply the volume of of very LOUD cylinder cocks (Esu Loksond V.0 with soundfile German BR24).
Another chapter is the quality of soundfiles. Esu soundfiles could'nt persuade me really. E.g. an ALCO 539T should sound like an ALCO 539T and not sounding like an John Deere Tractor. A German V200 soundfile is sounding like an eldery Mercedes Benz truck? May be this satisfies those guys who simply want a certain level of any noise, but not me.
Here in Germany many Loksound users have replaced the original soundfiles with thoses purchased from Henning, because they sounds much better and a good deal more prototipical. I have heard the new Loksound Select files were better sounding than the previous ones for the Loksound V4.0, but i am still rather sceptical. As said, chapter closed for me.
The Zimo soundfiles are better, but some interesting US sound are compound with cost here too. And there are still some big :?:

For this, so my expieriences and my opinion, the Tsunami is still the more user-friendly sound decoder. The Zimo sound decoders will have to be tested still.


@Hardy

Tsunami motor management CVs:

CV10: BEMF cutout
CV209: KP Coefficient
CV210: KI Coefficient
CV212: Motor Control Intensity (BEMF Feedback Intensity)
CV213: Motor Control Sample
CV214: Motor Control Aperture Time
CV215: BEMF Gain Coefficient
CV216: Voltage Adjustement (DCC RMS Voltage)
CV217: Motor Control Register
CV219: BEMF Calibration Delay


Cheers Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#19
Lutz, I hoped you would tell me I did not understand the Zimo sound decodersat all and there are hundreds of high quality sounds of all kind of US diesel engines available.... Ok, I stop dreaming now.
Looks like Soundtraxx is really the best compromise at the market today. I was a little bit afraid they were a dying company trapped by the old Tsunami decoder. But the new available Econami and the soon to be available Tsunami 2 show the company is alive and their products are vital.

I own the ESU programmer (the older blue one) and played a lot with it the 3.0 and 3.5 sound projects. ESU did not protect their sound projects in the very beginning. It was fun to deeply modify the internal logic. I could taylor some sounds for my specific needs of switching only. But that is gone a long time ago.
I had at that time a lengthy and in-depth discussion with the ESU developers about the humming sound. The outcome was a clear "it works as designed". They refused to discuss how Zimo handles the motor at slow speed. May be Dr. Ziegler is not the charming person openly talking about internals while Zimo developers have been very friendly all time. ESU was at that time very much German and Märklin minded (I did never hear a Märklin engine with a ESU decoder at low speed). May be the ESU selection by some US/Chinese companies may change that in the future.
Reinhard
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#20
Reinhard,
when you ask me directly for comparison of Zimo and Tsunami soundfiles, my ears say the Tsunami ones are better. More crisp and clear defined.

Listen to that EMD567 (EMD GP9):
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1auERUXODs">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1auERUXODs</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYNVtiRSyw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYNVtiRSyw</a><!-- m -->
That is the real thing you want to hear as near as possible out of the speaker of your H0 loco.



<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.zimo.at/web2010/sound/tableindex_EN.htm">http://www.zimo.at/web2010/sound/tableindex_EN.htm</a><!-- m -->
Look here for soundsamples e.g. the classic EMD567 and listen:
- GP9
- F3
- F7


The same for Soundtraxx Tsunami:
EMD 567 non turbo
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/econami_sound.php?s=diesel">http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/e ... p?s=diesel</a><!-- m -->

Listen to it and tell me about, they sound all different. :?:


Cheers Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#21
I see, Zimo is not very impressive. Looks like Zoffi has been to close to the engine. There are a lot of secondary sounds (mostly rattling and shaking) that temper the main motor and exhaust sound.
But that is a key problem of this sounds. Do we look for the sound of the engine standing directly at it's side (lots of secondary sound), on an overpass (dominating exhaust) or in a distance of 87 meters/yards (typical mixed sound with some add ons) or 250 meters/yards (only typical sound without most details)?
I prefer the 87 meter/yards distance. That is about my distance while switching. Those with a larger layout may prefer the 250 meter/yards distance. Technical freaks with prefer the sound immediate at the locomotive identifying the left generator beating. But that should also have a lot of low frequency power tattling your bones Big Grin
Tsunami fits my requirements best. I am looking forward for the new sound decoders.

ps. What is an alternative for the tiny Micro Loksound decoder? They are humming for sure but they fit in small switchers.
Reinhard
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#22
Yes i agree, the best sound is that what you can hear in a certain distance away from the prototype loco. In the case of a Diesel loco it is predomiantly exaust, horn, bell and brake squeal. And in second it is air compressor, cooling fans, dynamic brake fans and poppet valves. That are the sound you can hear when railfanning. But do you hear cab talk?
And in case of model railroads you are mainly a railfan with a remote control in your hand to commandeer the actions on the layout. For me all other aditional sound functions are nice to have, but seldom used ones. Nice to have are for me e.g. coupler clank and separating of airhoses, but when you use it by pushing every time the button? For some of this soundfiles it will be very nice if they are automated. Most sound decoders have the possibilities to adjust them.
In the case of a switcher i have automated:
- Lights according Rule 17
- Horn signals (forward 2 short, backward 3 short, when stopping 1 short
- Brake squeal
- Cooling fans
- Air compressor
- Notching
And: - Grade crossing horn signals by pushing 1 button 1 times
The volume level is overall reduced to a level of 15 - 20% of the maximum. For home using it may be better for reducing still more, but this is according to the individual taste of each user.
And in this conclusion motor humming is simply counterproductive.

Steam sound is an other chapter, here you need bass volume really. The best of course are the bones rattling one s Wink

For new sound decoders, i have bought 3 Econamis, two steam and one Diesel. Also brand new for me is a SPROG3 device. Decoder Pro still have to be installed on my PC.

And for alternatives of Micro Loksound, sorry i have not really one as i am modelling in H0.

Cheers Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#23
Schraddel Wrote:....i have bought 3 Econamis, two steam and one Diesel.
I am interested too. Looks like RD Hobby has them on stock.

Schraddel Wrote:.Also brand new for me is a SPROG3 device. Decoder Pro still have to be installed on my PC.
I hope Tsunami etc. will save me from another computer program to use. My good old Intellibox and I can handle a bunch of CVs Wink

Schraddel Wrote:.And for alternatives of Micro Loksound, sorry i have not really one .....
I like the size for switchers (SW..., S...., MP.... ). I have to have another look into the upcoming decoders.
Reinhard
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#24
faraway Wrote:I like the size for switchers (SW..., S...., MP.... ). I have to have another look into the upcoming decoders.
For these purposes a sound decoder in form of complete replacement PCB-Motherboards may be a rather hassle free possibility of installation of sound in those locos. They are not larger than the original PCB, but have the sond decoder fully integrated and left enough space for speaker(s) under the bonnet:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/ecopnp.php">http://soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/ecopnp.php</a><!-- m -->
I think it is only a question of time "when" the new TSU2 will be released in this format.

Cheers Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#25
I had a look into the Econami documentation.
It looks quite interesting but I stumbled over this list of available diesel sounds:

EMD 567 non-turbo (default) - BL1, F3, GP7, SD7, and more
EMD 645 turbo - GP15T, GP40, SD45, FP45, and more
EMD 710 turbo - GP59, SD60, SD80MAC, F59PH, and more
GE FDL-16 modern - Amtrak Dash 8-40BWH, AC4400CW, P42, and more
ALCO 244 - FA, RS-3, PA, and more

That is a very short list Sad
Even the 645 without Turbo (e.g. GP38-2) is missing.
Reinhard
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#26
If you are into 539 ALCo's I have the sounds for an S-1 non turbo that I recorded before I retired. They include a brass bell, air whstle, and the original steel bell made from well casing used during the second world war. I will gladly share them.
Charlie
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#27
It seem s to me Soundtraxx have discontinued the production of their hitherto Tsunamis types. And the new product range is still incomplete. Still missing the TSU2 PCB types.

@Charlie
That's great! But we as customers cannot change the sound files on tsunami decoders. It is possible with Esu and Zimo decoders to create a own sound. An ALCO 539 is still missing in the Zimo sound database:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.zimo.at/web2010/sound/tableindex_EN.htm">http://www.zimo.at/web2010/sound/tableindex_EN.htm</a><!-- m -->


Cheers Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#28
faraway Wrote:
Schraddel Wrote:.Also brand new for me is a SPROG3 device. Decoder Pro still have to be installed on my PC.
I hope Tsunami etc. will save me from another computer program to use. My good old Intellibox and I can handle a bunch of CVs Wink
Did two Tsunami with my own step curve today and have a third one to go. Changed my mind and ordered an SPROG3 too.
Reinhard
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#29
Got my SPROG3 today and installed it together with Decoder Pro. It is very convenient to do my own step curve.

ps. I run the SPROG3 windows driver for windows 7 and Decoder Pro without any problems in a virtual Win 7 under VMWare Fusion on my iMac / OSX 10.11.5.
Reinhard
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#30
Check out this video on Youtube <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=zimo+sugar+cube+speaker&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwi2qOqd86fVAhUJLyYKHb94DOUQsAQISg&biw=1854&bih=952#imgrc=fftL9shxqjVVSM">https://www.google.com/search?q=zimo+su ... 9shxqjVVSM</a><!-- m -->:
This guy used 2 Zimo sugar cube speakers,and made a custom enclosure.Probably one of the best sounding EMD 567 sounds i've heard.Their are other cell phone speakers that can be purchased in bulk from Digi-key(USA)for about $2 a piece(US),and a Hobby store reatailer called Streamline backshop makes custom speaker chambers for many sizes of sugar cube speakers.They even produce their own speaker w/chambers.
I have viewed many videos on Youtube and have seen how most of these speakers are installed with the speaker face firing down into the enclosure,and i think to myself,well where does the sound come out?But if you watch the video it shows the face of the speaker firing up and out of the enclosure,not into it. :? :? And i must say the sound is chrystal clear.I noticed to that in the many videos i have observed,that a longer baffle does produce more bass response.
Don Shriner
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