Electric-powered steam engines?
#1
Hi all,

This is a hypothetical question. Steam engines obviously need to boil water in order to power them and I realize there is more than one way to boil water. Since a coal- or wood-burning fire is not the only way to heat water, could a steam engine be potentially created so that a powerful electric heater could heat the water? This seems to make sense to me but maybe a fire (that burns coal or wood) creates more heat than an electric motor could?

This is only a curiosity/theoretical question, so don't jump all over me! I'm not advocating that anyone should do this, just wondering if it would be possible or if it's feasible. It would also be totally green as well.

Thanks,
Rob (aka RobertInOntario)
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#2
Temperature of well water is normally in the 50-60 degree Fahrenheit range. In order to generate steam then, you're changing the temperature (and keeping it there) by 150-160 degrees, and you have to be ready to release the steam at a moment's notice - you have to have that boiler hot long before you move your locomotive.

If you have an electric water heater in your home, you raise the well water temperature by about 50-60 degrees and you typically only have enough hot water to take a couple showers before you have to wait for the tank to refill and reheat.

It would take a hell of an electric heating coil to generate enough energy to produce the steam required to power a locomotive, let alone pull cars behind you, even on level ground.

The energy required heat the coil has to come from somewhere. I don't know if you were thinking of overhead catenary to power the electric loco (guess where that electricity comes from (hint, it's not green))? Current battery technology wouldn't suffice. If you don't have an external voltage source, the electricity has to be generated by a motor - probably diesel, or back to good ole coal. (again, not green).

Hope you don't think I'm jumping on you or your idea - it's good to understand that nothing in this world is free.
Check out my "Rainbows in the Gorge" website: http://morristhemoosetm.wixsite.com/rainbows
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#3
Rob, one real source of "green" energy is of course, solar. but I can't image how big those panels would have to be to generate enough electric power to constantly turn water into steam at the rate of about 100 to 200 gallons per mile. and how big the heater would be to do that. Plus now you're adding weight to your load.

One might just try nuclear,. If it can power a submarine, it could work without the electric heater.

Interesting concept though.
Don (ezdays) Day
Board administrator and
founder of the CANYON STATE RAILROAD
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#4
Thanks for this feedback! It's kinda what I expected -- that the electric heater wouldn't have enough power to either heat or maintain the water at the needed temperature. Still an interesting idea and maybe only nuclear would work, as Don suggests.

My 20yo son & I are live steam model enthusiasts & I was discussing this idea with him. Even he didn't think electric would have the power & capability to maintain such heat.

Cheers, Rob
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#5
I checked this out
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOL...isselc.htm

as I thought they had tried it.
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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#6
the only possible way to heat enough water to run a steam engine would be with a nuclear 
reactor  and think of the possible consequences of that.
Jim
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#7
Sure it's possible, but not practical.

There would be power losses in getting the electricity from the catenary to the heater. Then there would be power losses heating he water, then there would be power losses in using the steam to run the engine. It would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay more efficient to just take the electricity and run a big electric motor or motors to drive the train and forget about the steam part altogether.
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#8
The steam heat in electric territory was actually made with boilers in the locomotives that were fueled with heating oil. It was done so if the train was without electricity there would still be heat and it was more efficient. 
Charlie
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#9
<p>
(10-11-2023, 09:21 AM)Charlie B Wrote: The steam heat in electric territory was actually made with boilers in the locomotives that were fueled with heating oil.

</p><p><br></p><p>If asked the&nbsp;old trick question is, "If an electric engine is going east and the wind is going west, which way does the smoke go?", the proper response is to ask if it is on a passenger or freight train.&nbsp; If the train is passenger then the answer is west, if the train is freight, the answer is neither, there isn't any smoke.</p>
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#10
Thanks for this feedback !
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#11
(10-09-2023, 11:26 AM)TMo Wrote: Temperature of well water is normally in the 50-60 degree Fahrenheit range.  In order to generate steam then, you're changing the temperature (and keeping it there) by 150-160 degrees, and you have to be ready to release the steam at a moment's notice - you have to have that boiler hot long before you move your locomotive.

If you have an electric water heater in your home, you raise the well water temperature by about 50-60 degrees and you typically only have enough hot water to take a couple showers before you have to wait for the tank to refill and reheat.

It would take a hell of an electric heating coil to generate enough energy to produce the steam required to power a locomotive, let alone pull cars behind you, even on level ground. 

The energy required heat the coil has to come from somewhere.  I don't know if you were thinking of overhead catenary to power the electric loco  (guess where that electricity comes from (hint, it's not green))?  Current battery technology wouldn't suffice.  If you don't have an external voltage source, the electricity has to be generated by a motor - probably diesel, or back to good ole coal.  (again, not green). 

Hope you don't think I'm jumping on you or your idea - it's good to understand that nothing in this world is free.

(10-09-2023, 06:46 PM)BR60103 Wrote: I checked this out
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOL...isselc.htm

as I thought they had tried it.

Interesting! Thanks, David.  Rob
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