Shamrock Ave. Ft. Worth, TX

[Mike Kieran]

I was thinking that if you switch the scrap yard and staging track, then the engine could stay on one end.

[Justinmiller171]

I just set up a 15" half-circle and set a gp-7 and some 50' boxcars on it and they run good on it, it doesn't look good visually but it will work. all cars stayed on the track even at higher speeds and no problem with the couplers.

You should be okay with 15" curves, although I still suggest going without them.

[Brakie]

I was thinking that if you switch the scrap yard and staging track, then the engine could stay on one end.

That would work or he could use spacer cars between the engine and setout.

On the PRR in Columbus there was a restricted curve into a metal processor and locomotives above a ES6 ( SW1) was prohibited so,we used spacer cars and if neeed be that included the cabin..

[steinjr]

I just set up a 15" half-circle and set a gp-7 and some 50' boxcars on it and they run good on it, it doesn't look good visually but it will work. all cars stayed on the track even at higher speeds and no problem with the couplers.

You can make cars go through 15" radius curves. German Märklin trains routinely do 14.7" radius curves - with free swiveling trucks and couplers mounted on the trucks instead of on the car.

I would be more concerned with the seemingly very tight aisle (about 20" wide?) aisle at the right end of the layout. It is hard to see that having a single staging track there adds that much in operational value - and having it there seemingly forcing 15" radius curves and a narrow aisle.

A drawing to scale and a description of the room would be useful.

Smile,
Stein

[macmiller]

I just set up a 15" half-circle and set a gp-7 and some 50' boxcars on it and they run good on it, it doesn't look good visually but it will work. all cars stayed on the track even at higher speeds and no problem with the couplers.

You should be okay with 15" curves, although I still suggest going without them.

Thanks for doing that Justin, you da man!

Stein,

The room is a 3x11 double door walk in closet in my garage. The shelf has been up for over a year, and as long as I don't have junk laying around in there, I can get around no problem. It's 52" to the top. The tip of my nose touches the top. After a lot of poking around at empty walls in my house, I decided this was the best place. I run a full-time t-shirt screen printing shop in the garage and what ever is in the main part of the garage has to be kept accessible, anything else is secondary, including the layout.

Here's my rough drawing I use for re-arranging the shop, from my desk....

[steinjr]

It's 52" to the top. The tip of my nose touches the top.

Hmm - that explains it - at a height between waist and chest, that aisle would be very narrow. But at chin/nose level, we have a much narrower cross section.

Looking at the prototype, I would still be tempted to not include too much line at the far right (the area between Rupert/Shamrock and Cullen Street), put Lee and Gachman on the same spur, quite possibly flip the access to Jahn's supply (the one you have labelled TBD lumber and door), so it the turnout branches off towards the left instead of towards the right. That would also give you some much needed work space to hold outbound cars during switching.

Mmm - could also squeeze in Shields Industrial Supply at the same track as Felt Oil Sales.

Something roughly like this:


Smile,
Stein

[Brakie]

Stein,Why put two industries on one spur?

Recall industrial sidings is own by the industry not the railroad and its very doubtful that a active rail customer would want their car(s) moved while they are being unloaded especially tank cars or covered hoppers due to the loading/unloading hoses connected to the car and the need to pay a employee or employees to stand around while cars are being switch which can take up to 30 minutes.

[shortliner]

Stein,Why put two industries on one spur?

Recall industrial sidings is own by the industry not the railroad and its very doubtful that a active rail customer would want their car(s) moved while they are being unloaded especially tank cars or covered hoppers due to the loading/unloading hoses connected to the car and the need to pay a employee or employees to stand around while cars are being switch which can take up to 30 minutes.

Using a Peco RH Setrack curved turnout (both tracks nominally 24" radius), would solve this problem, allowing the tank car(s) to have a seperate siding on the left, and running the other track either alongside, or into, the Shields Supply building - Felt Oils building could move into the space no longer occupied by the extension of the Oils track - giving clear trackage along the frontage

[Tyson Rayles]

Just for the record they do make sound and DCC equipted N scale locos (mostly 6 axle or large steam) and excellent under the table sound systems. As someone who has the under the table system at home (N scale) and DCC loco sound at work ( O scale) after a few weeks the sound became rather annoying (at work I have to listen to it up to 8 hours a day) and I now turn the sound off every chance I get! I don't understand why N would be a problem if you want to switch? Zillions of people, myself included do switching in N scale everyday and really enjoy it. As far as going HO with 15" radius your trackwork will have to be flawless and your locos and cars VERY short and even then you will probably have enough problems that you will end up tearing it all out and starting over. The reason I know this is it's why I switched to N scale in the first place. If I had it to do over I would probably go with Z scale.

[FCIN]

Nice variation of the track plan Stein! I like it!

As for having two industries on the same track - nothing wrong with that and it adds operational interest to a small switching layout. Lot's of places out there in railroad land where you'll find two, even more industries on the same siding. I currently have two industries on one long track on my own ISL which is based on a prototype location and industries that I really like; and like the prototype location, I may extend that track a little and add a third small industry, which would eliminate a switch and complicate the switching a tad.

I would have to agree with Mike about considering going with N scale rather than HO in your available layout space. Hadn't thought about an under the table sound system or even using larger motive power to have sound in N scale, but it has possibilities. I often will mute the sound or use one of my non-sound equipped loco's when switching my layout, as it will get on your nerves at times.

You might try and see what you could do with N scale in that same space before going ahead. Don't know if any N scale GP-40's are available in FWWR paint, but if they have them in HO, then the odds are good that they'll have them in N at some point. Look's to me like an N scale version of that spur could pretty well duplicate the prototype arrangement.

Z scale??????? Yipes!!!! I have trouble seeing all the detail and working with HO!!!

Just my 2 1/2 cents worth.

[Brakie]

Gee whiz guys..

You can install drop in sound in a Atlas GP7/9..

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Why is it I know more about what's available in N then I do HO? :o

[macmiller]

That is nice Stein, thanks!! It's a tempting design.

I drove down Shamrock over the weekend to see what It'd be like on a layout. LeeCo receives plate steel on bulkhead flats. They had 1 on spot, the only spot, and one out on the runaround on the main. I could tell by the load they were for the same business. I doubt they receive much traffic, so the spot will be empty more often than not, so if you have to pull a car off to get to the scrap yard, it's not a big deal and adds a few minutes of work. Sheilds doesn't have rail service, but it's not a bad idea to change that.

I could do N and like I said I have track turnouts, cars and an a GP38 ready to go, I just am seeing some impracticality in doing some real switching. It's just too small to fiddle with uncoupling and whatnot. Sound would be a bonus in either scale, it's just the size of N would be the drawback. I only have the 11 feet and really in either scale, I won't be able to have all I'd like to have. Givens and Druthers, I suppose.

[fwwrmodeler]

It's nice to here about somebody else modeling the FWWR. Guys the area he is following is called White Settlement.

Areal:
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There is a small passing siding, prob less than 500 ft long. There is also a spur that holds approx 6 cars on opposite side. The lead to Shamrock comes off the passing siding drops grade and between two building to Shamrock Ave. There are approx 6 small industries on this lead with both facing and trailing switchs. This is a real neat modeling area.

I have taken lots of pictures of this are for modeling ideas for my own layout.
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If I can answer any questions for you I will try. I also have lots of photo of the FWWR that may help you also. I'm up here in Gainesville, TX if you would like to come see what im doing some time.

[Brakie]

could do N and like I said I have track turnouts, cars and an a GP38 ready to go, I just am seeing some impracticality in doing some real switching. It's just too small to fiddle with uncoupling and whatnot. Sound would be a bonus in either scale, it's just the size of N would be the drawback. I only have the 11 feet and really in either scale, I won't be able to have all I'd like to have. Givens and Druthers, I suppose.
--------------------------------------------
I use magnets to uncouple N Scale cars-this also gives the ability to use one magnet for several spots.

Now if you're sold on HO there are some drawbacks as any experience model will tell you.One is size you get less in the same space.

One of the benefits HO offers is the ability to detail your ISL to the Nth degree.For me that's a plus more so then sound.

As far as 2 industries on a siding that's ok but,my past railroading experience teaches me that is far from the normal industry siding and in that light I won't do it.

[shortliner]

Stein very kindly sent me his original plan to fiddle with, and I have added two versions - The first ususe a Peco Setrack 24" radius curved turnout to the right so that the two industries on a spur problem is fixed

   

The second adds a couple of inches width to the right hand end, uses another curved turnout and gives a run-round and tail track, while adding a small switching complication . The Tail track is fenced to seperate it from the Industrial supplies track, and their track has a gate which the brakeman must collect the key for, and unlock, before switching can commence - the gate must be locked, and the key returned when complete ( original idea by Lance Mindheim)